Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[Vidocq]

Was anybody else dissapointed that he just yelled a little at Fury and then sort of forgot to ask about the dead blue giant alien?

[5Eyes]

The most likely use of Ward is going to be a "Blacklist/Silence of the Lambs/Escape from New York" kind of a deal - they'll use a device like they did with Skye when they considered her a traitor except maybe in a more lethal fashion..

[vitruvian]

Which is, hugely ironically, exactly what SHIELD hired him to do, trained him to do, regularly praised him for doing, and promoted and rewarded and encouraged him to continue being excellent at.

His job was infiltration and deep cover, and he was good at it. His *exact* job description is to infiltrate groups, earn their trust, spy on them, and inevitably betray and destroy them from within. As long as he was doing it to however many people we'll never know that SHIELD ordered him to infiltrate, betray and destroy, he was SHIELD's golden boy. (And you can be sure that every one of those groups he betrayed *for* SHIELD had people who were just as shocked and hurt and outraged by his betrayal, especially any that he might have convinced that he loved them, or was their prize pupil, or only reliable friend in the world. Just as shocked and outraged as Coulson or May or Skye, but SHIELD didn't consider that a 'betrayal' or 'wrong' or 'evil' because it wasn't happening to *them.*)

And then, like a toddler discovering object permanence, SHIELD discovered that he was in fact doing the exact job they'd praised him for all those years, *on them.*

And suddenly, it's all like, 'OMG! You traitor! How could you be so evil and heartless as to earn people's trust and then betray them, *exactly like we taught you!*'

It's like SHIELD is run by a bunch of infants, not actual spies. "Oh, it's so shocking that you are *exactly* the sort of man you always said you were, great at infiltrating organizations, earning trust and then betraying them from within!"

The infiltrating betrayer betrays the infiltrating betrayers who hired and trained him to be an infiltrating betrayer. The only part that's even remotely 'shocking' about the whole scenario is that Coulson could be such a self-righteous whiner about it. Skye, Simmons and May seem to be handling it much more pragmatically.

Romanov would probably nod knowingly, and her 'interrogation' of Ward would be;
"Were you loyal to Hydra or Garrett?"
"Garrett."
"He's dead. Where are your loyalties now?"
"I haven't thought that far ahead."
"You've got plenty of time to think about it, and if I like your answer, I'll have a job for you. You have useful skills, you think like an operative, and you're not an emotional infant who will risk a mission because someone hurt his wee tender feelings. Reminds me of... me."

Well, let's be fair, there's not exact moral equivalence here, either of ends or means. Fury and Coulson and the loyal members of Coulson's team certainly believe, down to the bone, that their ends are righteous ones of protection. And while it's certainly fair to point out that they are willing to employ pretty shady techniques in pursuit of those goals, so that to a certain extent they're espousing a utilitarian 'ends justify the means' philosophy, even in the means they're willing to go to, SHIELD under Fury and the loyalist SHIELD agents (as opposed to HYDRA now) are not nearly as extreme. Will they use lethal force under some circumstances, such as open combat or commando missions? Sure, nature of the job, but they're certainly not as prone to extrajudicial execution/assassination or just plain cold blooded murder as HYDRA appears to be. Part of why Romanov switched to working for SHIELD was because she wouldn't be employed, at least primarily, as an assassin, since she wanted to balance the red in her ledger, not add to it. Another case in point, the Bonnie and Clyde couple that made the Chitauri weapon work and went on a bank robbing spree - they expected to be killed or at least disappeared, and instead they got low-level SHIELD jobs. Wonder what happened to them in the recent events, too. Anyway, this is an arena in which the specific actors really are important to the moral equations, unless you want to make the case that undercover investigations are never, ever justified for any reason whatsoever.

Now, with Ward, do his skill set and specific connections suggest he might be useful to the team/SHIELD again on some basis? Absolutely, and there's a lot of drama there, but for the team to never trust or let their eyes off him after these events doesn't make them babies with wee tender feelings, it just makes them properly wary of a trained dog that's already bit them once. Should they perhaps have been wary to begin with? Sure, but with the possible exceptions of Coulson and May (who long since drank the Fury Kool-Aid about SHIELD's noble purpose), that was never really their skill set, neither the techies nor anti-establishment recruit Skye. If there's to be a redemption arc, it'll have to be a long and winding one.

[marshal99]

This is a comic universe. In the comics , bad guys switch sides all the time. Magneto , so much damage and threaten the homo sapiens all the time , oh he's good now ? Okay.

[vitruvian]

Im more surprised by certain people's reaction than the character.
It seems that spy on bad guys good, but spying on good guys bad is the rule that a lot of people go by.
And if this is not a super hero show then what's left is the spy part which means that type of rule doesnt not really apply a 100%.

There are lots of different types of spy stories, though, and to the extent that one set in a superhero universe is ever purely a spy show, it's always going to have more in common with James Bond or Mission Impossible or Man from UNCLE than with grittier spy dramas like le Carre's Smiley novels. So, you can't really conclude that absolute grey lack of moral absolutes or differences seen in such stories (and not entirely there, really, given that Smiley is actually extremely loyal and patriotic and as moral as the job ever allows for, and able to inculcate similar attitudes in others) is ever going to be the protagonistic viewpoint in AoS, although I suppose an antagonist might argue for it.

TL;DR; even in a spy show, there can still be good guys you're meant to root for vs. bad guys you're meant to hiss at, even though it can be argued that spying is to a certain extent an inherently bad thing. But then, the same thing can be said of physical violence in any action genre, including superheroes.

[Mikekerr3]

sometimes to build a better world sometimes means tearing the old one down.

Only to psychopaths. Whe have quite enough of that in the real world.

[vitruvian]

It's nothing like what happened in POI for the same reason it's nothing like what happened with Black Widow, because there were never issues of personal trust and betrayal involved in either case like there are in AOS.

Look, it might be different if Big SHIELD still existed and the whole thing was being micromanaged by bureaucrats whose only concern is the bottom line. The suits in corner offices who never set foot in the field might be willing to look at Ward as a usable asset and nothing more. But Big SHIELD is gone. For all intents and purposes, SHIELD is Coulson, May, Skye, Fitz, Simmons, and Tripplett, and they all have ample reason to stick a knife in Ward's eye if they ever see him again outside of a cell.

Since Skye already demonstrated she couldn't let another bad guy kill the guy rather than reveal critical intel, I seriously doubt that any of them will react in exactly that manner. Shoot, even May didn't kill him when he was down and helpless, although she'd probably be perfectly happy to give him a few more beat downs (and said as much).

[Mikekerr3]

Seriously.

And we're not even saying where he goes or what he does after he works with the team. Does he impose a penance on himself? How does he really feel about the team? Does he even know how he feels about this? Etc.

Will they explain why the team members do shoot him on sight?

[vitruvian]

Ward isn't working anywhere near SHIELD again. There's no way Director Coulson will let him back in. Obvious answer is that he'll be an independent agent who either helps or hinders the team every so often while working out his own agenda.

Or, since the rebuilding SHIELD is probably not big enough to have its own prison facilities, and it's going to be difficult to document many of his transgressions to the satisfaction of the regular authorities, there's an opening for some rival intelligence/security operation to pick him up as an asset. Think Section One, not the actual organization from La Femme Nikita of course, but some group that operates in that manner.

[Captain Planet]

NOOOOOOOOOOO! My boy Ward might not be coming back...until the season 2 premiere where he's escaped: xd Well, maybe not that quick but sooner or later he'll be back.

Also, didn't anyone else get so many inhuman vibes you had to check you weren't going crazy? It was almost scary how many seemed to be in there! I can't wait for Blackbolt on the big screen, and some of the inhumans who have been featured in books over the years on TV.

Never would have guessed that the inhumans would be ushed to the fore on TV instead of the Big screen. Here we go! All that's let are some interdimensional demons from Doc Strange and shield will really be exploring!

YES! I was just wondering if anyone else was thinking that. Last night was the first time I started thinking about the Inhumans.

[vitruvian]

Will they explain why the team members do shoot him on sight?

Because they've already firmly established that's not their reaction. Skye had a chance to just let him die, May could have easily administered a double tap after he was down, Coulson could have summarily executed him, etc.

[kalorama]

Since Skye already demonstrated she couldn't let another bad guy kill the guy rather than reveal critical intel, I seriously doubt that any of them will react in exactly that manner. Shoot, even May didn't kill him when he was down and helpless, although she'd probably be perfectly happy to give him a few more beat downs (and said as much).

I never said they'd do it, I said they'd have ample reason to do it, which they do. All of them have ample justification for wanting Ward dead, regardless of whether they're willing to do the deed themselves.

[DrNewGod]

NOOOOOOOOOOO! My boy Ward might not be coming back...until the season 2 premiere where he's escaped: xd Well, maybe not that quick but sooner or later he'll be back.

Also, didn't anyone else get so many inhuman vibes you had to check you weren't going crazy? It was almost scary how many seemed to be in there! I can't wait for Blackbolt on the big screen, and some of the inhumans who have been featured in books over the years on TV.

Never would have guessed that the inhumans would be ushed to the fore on TV instead of the Big screen. Here we go! All that's let are some interdimensional demons from Doc Strange and shield will really be exploring!

I think we'll see Inhumans on the small screen first. I suspect they'll hold the Royal Family for the big screen.

[Carabas]

Could be. Remember, they escaped because that module was multi purpose--used on subs and elsewhere...which Ward would know.

Strictly speaking, the only reason they escaped was because Nick Fury was paying attention. They'd both have drowned otherwise.

Also, it's not as if Ward had the option of just shooting them in the face, or the time and resources to patiently burn through the door after that EMP that put Garrett at death's door.

[Vibranium]

well at least one of the lab rats is gone and Wards still a bad guy so im Ok with how the season ended