Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[remydat]

Don't you realize that none of your arguments matter to someone who considers it an appliance that just looks and behaves very much like a human? I don't consider it to have more rights than a toaster.

And don't you realize that none of your arguments matter to a being that considers itself sentient? Again, you seem confused. This is the precisely the point I'm making. You and Radcliffe didn't see her as anything more than a toaster and she saw herself as something more and hence she responded by trying to end what she considered to be her oppression.

Again, your argument would be like saying none of my arguments for why Jews or black people are human matter to Hitler or a white supremacist. Of course they don't. That doesn't change the fact that Jews and black people don't believe themselves to be inferior so if they oppose being oppressed then that is their right. All you are doing is justifying your bigotry which in this context you view as fine because we are talking about machines.

That's very much up for debate. We will, eventually, develop sentient computers. I highly doubt they're going to be granted the rights of a flesh-and-blood person.

And if that happens and the machines rebel and defeat humanity then humanity will have no one to blame but themselves. Again, you only think it is up for debate because you are human. A completely objective being looking at the situation would have to conclude, humanity created life and then sought to oppress it.

This is a common story in fiction so if humanity is stupid enough after like 50-100 years of stories of sentient machines rebelling against their creators for being treated like property or objects to still fall victim to their hubris then frankly we probably don't deserve to survive as a species.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Kinda random I know, but does anyone think we'll see Graviton? That guy was set up in the first season, and still nada.

[80sbaby]

Eh, "good" Ward was so generically handsome and good and therefore really bland, which made his evil revelation work so, so well and why he kept coming back. I'm afraid LMD Ward would be nice to look at but boring in practice.

To be fair, we've never actually seen "good" Ward. When he was working with the team, he was pretending to be bland and boring on purpose. That wasn't really how'd he be as a good guy. Just what "bad" Ward thought good guys act like. This Ward would be a little different and should have more charisma.

[Anarchist]

To be fair, we've never actually seen "good" Ward. When he was working with the team, he was pretending to be bland and boring on purpose. That wasn't really how'd he be as a good guy. Just what "bad" Ward thought good guys act like. This Ward would be a little different and should have more charisma.

Yeah, that. He was trying to be the generic yes-man SHIELD agent everybody would trust, but not necesseraily like, as him actually growing close to the team was an unintended side effect.

Brett Dalton is a versatile actor, I'm sure he can deliver a great performance as a legitimately good guy.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

only if he goes bad again, an evil Ward is a fun Ward.

I think itd be fitting if someone LMD Ward ended up back in the real-world having been sent by Aida to finish off shield only to betray Aida and save the team. Lol. Maybe have the Russian Android head guy undergo facial surgery for "reasons" and Ward betrays even the head in the bottle as well. It's like Jemma said.abojt betrayal just being what he does.

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Kinda random I know, but does anyone think we'll see Graviton? That guy was set up in the first season, and still nada.

I don't think it. His power is maybe in addition to costing a lot of money also waaayyy out of the team's paygrade even if Ghost Rider was still around. Then again, it could be when Ghost Rider comes back other things come back with him. And so begins his mission of hence not only against the wronged, but against the wrong he too has wrought. There is the premise for the ghost Rider show right there with a host if villains besides his own, and the allowance of Agents of Shield, which my be getting cancelled this year to put some of these actors into more MCU.

If AOS is cancelled, I hope some people at least go over to Netflix shows. Doubt they'd be cast in any movies, despite how much of loving Chloe benefit these days.

[Immortal Weapon]

I feel Graviton was added when the show had strong ties to the films and likely set him up for that end.

[Forseti]

And don't you realize that none of your arguments matter to a being that considers itself sentient? Again, you seem confused. This is the precisely the point I'm making. You and Radcliffe didn't see her as anything more than a toaster and she saw herself as something more and hence she responded by trying to end what she considered to be her oppression.

Again, your argument would be like saying none of my arguments for why Jews or black people are human matter to Hitler or a white supremacist. Of course they don't. That doesn't change the fact that Jews and black people don't believe themselves to be inferior so if they oppose being oppressed then that is their right. All you are doing is justifying your bigotry which in this context you view as fine because we are talking about machines.



And if that happens and the machines rebel and defeat humanity then humanity will have no one to blame but themselves. Again, you only think it is up for debate because you are human. A completely objective being looking at the situation would have to conclude, humanity created life and then sought to oppress it.

This is a common story in fiction so if humanity is stupid enough after like 50-100 years of stories of sentient machines rebelling against their creators for being treated like property or objects to still fall victim to their hubris then frankly we probably don't deserve to survive as a species.

Why do you keep insisting it is sentient? Do you also believe parrots can really talk? Just because it looks sentient doesn't mean it is sentient.

I find your arguments in this post very distasteful. Godwin scores another point.

[AndrewCrossett]

If Aida is fully sentient... she is self-aware, capable of independent thought and interpretation of data and in control of her own input and output... then she should have the rights of a human being. (Like Data on Star Trek, who was confirmed by the Federation to have full human rights.) But she also has human responsibilities. There were other ways she could have dealt with her dissatisfaction at being treated like an object. Instead, she went straight to the option of depriving other sentient beings of their rights and freedom. If she's human, then she's a human criminal and needs to be dealt with as such. If she were to surrender or be safely captured I'd argue she should have due process of law. But this is an action-adventure TV show, and major villains like Aida generally get killed. The SHIELD team wouldn't hesitate to kill a human who was doing what she's doing.

As for how to tell whether she's truly sentient or just really, really good at mimicking sentience... there is no real way. In fact, you can't really be 100% certain that anyone besides yourself is truly sentient. It's an entirely subjective judgment. You can say the people in the Framework are just computer code... but how do we know our world isn't the same thing? Maybe a Framework whose technology we wouldn't be able to recognize even if we saw it? Maybe "God" was just the Holden Radcliffe of his world.

If Aida were a flesh and blood human and anyone thought to value her "life," they would also consider the possibility that her evil behavior is entirely due to corruption by the Darkhold. It did the same thing to the people who read it. Is there any way to reverse that, such as maybe by destroying the Darkhold? And what would be the consequences of destroying such a powerful artifact, if in fact it can even be done?

[Stars & Stripes]

I feel Graviton was added when the show had strong ties to the films and likely set him up for that end.

This arc has been said to be a love letter for viewers who've stuck around since the first season, and the producers have discussed possibly tying up the Graviton loose end. Whether that happens at all remains to be seen.

[remydat]

Why do you keep insisting it is sentient? Do you also believe parrots can really talk? Just because it looks sentient doesn't mean it is sentient.

I find your arguments in this post very distasteful. Godwin scores another point.

Because evidence in the story suggests she is. She apparently loves Fitz. She apparently was jealous of Agnes. She apparently didn't like being in a closet.

And my argument is not distasteful as i don't really think it's distasteful to suggest sentient beings have rights. I don't think you disagree with that hence why you are trying to argue she isn't sentient by ignoring evidence in the story that suggests she is.

So let me ask you simply. Let's assume for the sake of argument Aida is sentient. Do you think her being so means she has rights or do you still think she is merely a toaster? Is your issue that you don't think she is sentient or is your issue that you inherently devalue sentient synthetic life in theory.

If the answer is the latter then by definition you would be practicing bigotry which I really don't care about because sentient machines only exist in fiction but I see no reason not to call a spade a spade.

[remydat]

If Aida is fully sentient... she is self-aware, capable of independent thought and interpretation of data and in control of her own input and output... then she should have the rights of a human being. (Like Data on Star Trek, who was confirmed by the Federation to have full human rights.) But she also has human responsibilities. There were other ways she could have dealt with her dissatisfaction at being treated like an object. Instead, she went straight to the option of depriving other sentient beings of their rights and freedom. If she's human, then she's a human criminal and needs to be dealt with as such. If she were to surrender or be safely captured I'd argue she should have due process of law. But this is an action-adventure TV show, and major villains like Aida generally get killed. The SHIELD team wouldn't hesitate to kill a human who was doing what she's doing.

As for how to tell whether she's truly sentient or just really, really good at mimicking sentience... there is no real way. In fact, you can't really be 100% certain that anyone besides yourself is truly sentient. It's an entirely subjective judgment. You can say the people in the Framework are just computer code... but how do we know our world isn't the same thing? Maybe a Framework whose technology we wouldn't be able to recognize even if we saw it? Maybe "God" was just the Holden Radcliffe of his world.

If Aida were a flesh and blood human and anyone thought to value her "life," they would also consider the possibility that her evil behavior is entirely due to corruption by the Darkhold. It did the same thing to the people who read it. Is there any way to reverse that, such as maybe by destroying the Darkhold? And what would be the consequences of destroying such a powerful artifact, if in fact it can even be done?

I am not arguing that her response to being oppressed was correct. Just that she was in fact oppressed. She is still responsible for her actions but pretending like Redcliffe and the other humans did nothing wrong is illogical. I also said the conflict was inevitable because again this is a familiar story in fiction writing. Humans create AI as a tool. AI becomes self aware. Humans continue to treat AI as merely a tool. AI rebels. It was fairly obvious where this story was going once Aida was introduced.

And I'd go so far to say you can't really be sure you are sentient either. Hence why it's a bit of a moot point for me. This goes to the fundamental nature of reality and the fact is we don't really know what our consciousness represents. Hence why all that really matters IMO is how you perceive yourself. No one has the right IMO to tell another that their belief in their sentience is incorrect. The minute you can ponder those questions unless there is incontrovertible proof otherwise, you should be treated as sentient.

[Immortal Weapon]

When it comes to Aida Radcliffe didn't do anything wrong. You are making him sound like he has Mack levels of distrust for machines. He nurtured growing sentience. It was the LMDs that Radcliffe mistreated as they were just a means to an end for him. He completely abandoned LMD May once she did her job.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't think it. His power is maybe in addition to costing a lot of money also waaayyy out of the team's paygrade even if Ghost Rider was still around. Then again, it could be when Ghost Rider comes back other things come back with him. And so begins his mission of hence not only against the wronged, but against the wrong he too has wrought. There is the premise for the ghost Rider show right there with a host if villains besides his own, and the allowance of Agents of Shield, which my be getting cancelled this year to put some of these actors into more MCU.

If AOS is cancelled, I hope some people at least go over to Netflix shows. Doubt they'd be cast in any movies, despite how much of loving Chloe benefit these days.

I don't see how Graviton's power would require too much money for special effects, all things considered. A few wires is all you would need.

[remydat]

When it comes to Aida Radcliffe didn't do anything wrong. You are making him sound like he has Mack levels of distrust for machines. He nurtured growing sentience. It was the LMDs that Radcliffe mistreated as they were just a means to an end for him. He completely abandoned LMD May once she did her job.

He created an AI in a world that requires their destruction. That required him to hide her in his closet which she obviously did not like.

He created her in the image of Agnes with no thought to how she would feel if she ever found out. He taught her it was ok to kill humans to protect the framework as he basically ignored her killing the agent who stumbled on May. He taught her betrayal as he betrayed his entire team in order to obsessively see his project thru allying himself with people who at best had questionable morals and at worst were downright evil. He discarded the May LMD with no real concern with no guarantee he wouldn't do the same to Aida if necessary particularly since it was obvious his real goal here was saving Agnes. Aida was just a means to an end.

His actions were thoughtless and careless not just towards Aida but to the rest of the team. He was your garden variety mad scientist who thinks he is smarter than everyone and because of it several people were killed including himself.

There is a reason why AI were banned and Radcliffe never possessed the ethics to be a good teacher for a powerful AI. Even before Aida his morals were in question. So the project was doomed because the scientist never possessed the morals to adequately instruct such a potentially dangerous being.