Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[Saturius]

I already know the characters are gonna care. Otherwise the whole thing is pointless, so I am prepared to watch that unfold. But I definitely do NOT want to see people getting judged by others for what they did in the framework. They can judge and beat themselves up about it, but I don't want to see other characters doing it (ie. Jemma judging Fitz etc.)

I am actually kinda glad that Mack's daughter is in the framework, cause when he gets out(if he chooses to come out) he'll be too preoccupied with that, cause otherwise we all know he'd be the WORST when it came to giving people shit about their action in the framework since he's usually been a huge douche to nearly all the main characters at one time or another for the silliest of reasons.

[AndrewCrossett]

I don't think any of the characters (other than maybe Radcliffe) would openly carry a grudge against Fitz after getting back to the real world. They may assure him they understand what the situation was and it wasn't his fault, and they may think they believe it... but they (especially Simmons) will find that they just can't look at him the same way anymore, no matter how hard they try.

[Midvillian1322]

I already know the characters are gonna care. Otherwise the whole thing is pointless, so I am prepared to watch that unfold. But I definitely do NOT want to see people getting judged by others for what they did in the framework. They can judge and beat themselves up about it, but I don't want to see other characters doing it (ie. Jemma judging Fitz etc.)

I am actually kinda glad that Mack's daughter is in the framework, cause when he gets out(if he chooses to come out) he'll be too preoccupied with that, cause otherwise we all know he'd be the WORST when it came to giving people shit about their action in the framework since he's usually been a huge douche to nearly all the main characters at one time or another for the silliest of reasons.

Hes a little self-righteous, but ive always found mac to be one of the best charatcers on the show.

[remydat]

I don't think any of the characters (other than maybe Radcliffe) would openly carry a grudge against Fitz after getting back to the real world. They may assure him they understand what the situation was and it wasn't his fault, and they may think they believe it... but they (especially Simmons) will find that they just can't look at him the same way anymore, no matter how hard they try.

Why would it be any different for May the flaming racist who executes Fitz's order to murder Mace?

May didn't object to blowing up the facility because Mace was there. She objected because fake kids were there and she pretty much objected for like 2 seconds before going ahead with the plan to murder Mace.

So not sure why she would get a pass for her bigotry and murder.

Fitz literally has his fake father and the creator of this world using love to manipulate him. What's May's excuse? I wanted to murder Mace and am racist because I fucked up and let an inhuman live and she killed people?

[remydat]

I will also say May's betrayal of Hydra seems contrived. We know she tried to save a kid and the result was Cambridge. She also knows kids were inside when she accepted the order to bomb the building.

So why exactly does she suddenly give a shit about these kids. For the May of this universe she should think she just let a bunch of kids with unknown powers free. Why wouldn't she think one of them could commit another Cambridge?

Basically she saw one inhuman try and save other potential inhumans making the same mistake she feels she made. So why exactly wouldn't she put a bullet in Mace and the kids?

[ZeroBG82]

I will also say May's betrayal of Hydra seems contrived. We know she tried to save a kid and the result was Cambridge. She also knows kids were inside when she accepted the order to bomb the building.

So why exactly does she suddenly give a shit about these kids. For the May of this universe she should think she just let a bunch of kids with unknown powers free. Why wouldn't she think one of them could commit another Cambridge?

Basically she saw one inhuman try and save other potential inhumans making the same mistake she feels she made. So why exactly wouldn't she put a bullet in Mace and the kids?

May did NOT know there were kids in the quarantine building when it was attacked. After the quinjet strike she goes in and finds the now freed kids escaping, and she immediately reports that she has found kids. "Why are there kids in here?" is her line, as I recall. She was surprised. Appalled, even.

Also, she has no reason to believe that any of them are Inhumans, at least not at the moment she encountered them. It seems likely that May was left out of the "brainwashing our future" loop. And that has made her question her loyalty to HYDRA at last.

[Immortal Weapon]

I will also say May's betrayal of Hydra seems contrived. We know she tried to save a kid and the result was Cambridge. She also knows kids were inside when she accepted the order to bomb the building.

So why exactly does she suddenly give a shit about these kids. For the May of this universe she should think she just let a bunch of kids with unknown powers free. Why wouldn't she think one of them could commit another Cambridge?

Basically she saw one inhuman try and save other potential inhumans making the same mistake she feels she made. So why exactly wouldn't she put a bullet in Mace and the kids?

May didn't know there were kids in the building. She asked if there was anyone inside and they told her it didn't matter. The kid she saved in Bahrain is responsible for Cambridge. May change of heart is realizing everything Hydra told her has been wrong.

[Gaastra]

Those saying mace might still be alive they just confirmed he is dead as a doornail in both worlds.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/04/...-death-marvel/

For those of you who are still reeling from the death, one of the show’s top producers is speaking out about the decision to kill of Mace. In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Jed Whedon said the sudden death was one which brought gravitas to the dangers of Framework.
Here’s what Whedon had to say about Mace’s shocking death:

“This season is proof that death is, at times, fleeting on our show, but he is really dead. One of the things [we decided] from the very beginning in talking about doing some version of an alternate world was the stakes had to be real, so our decision to make it a virtual world came with great bonuses but also came with the challenge of, 'How do you still make the stakes high?' In order to make it life or death, we felt like we needed some death.”


Jeffrey Bell, an executive producer on the show, also had this to say about Patriot’s loss. “Jason came in and played this new version [of a character that] we've never seen, this slightly corny guy who had always wanted to be a hero, and the fact that in the Framework he got to be that hero was really fun, but there's also real consequences of being that hero; a real hero would sacrifice himself for the greater good.”
“As sad as it was for that character to end, for the character to go out in such a powerful way was super moving.”

[AndrewCrossett]

I know everybody does it, and it's a time-honored Whedon family tradition, but I find myself getting really irritated at the Dead Major Character Quota shows use, ticking off the box in order to "drive home the stakes." It's like any victory won without the sacrifice of a life is not a real victory. Seems kind of like lazy storytelling to me. There are other ways to create drama than killing characters. Not saying that main characters should never die, but it shouldn't be a box that gets dutifully checked off during the last few episodes of every season.

[remydat]

May did NOT know there were kids in the quarantine building when it was attacked. After the quinjet strike she goes in and finds the now freed kids escaping, and she immediately reports that she has found kids. "Why are there kids in here?" is her line, as I recall. She was surprised. Appalled, even.

Also, she has no reason to believe that any of them are Inhumans, at least not at the moment she encountered them. It seems likely that May was left out of the "brainwashing our future" loop. And that has made her question her loyalty to HYDRA at last.

Fair enough that she didn't know kids were in there. However, it's not the kids people are on Fitz about. It's Mace. And she knew Mace was in there and that she wanted to murder him. This is obvious. She took the serum to murder him and when that didn't work, she agreed to blow up a building even though it was obvious people could be inside hence the"Doest matter," comment. So what's the argument here? That May is not a monster because she only wanted to kill Mace and didn't give a shit who was inside the building?

Great she had a change of heart but the point here is that her entire character up to this point has been defined by hatred and bigotry. Hatred and bigotry because of a mistake she made that she then projected on to all Inhumans. As for the brainwashing the future, May certainly should know that they take inhuman kids because it's not a secret. The public knows they do because they literally walk into a class full of students and take inhumans away. And it's grunts doing it so the idea that these grunts are taking kids but May is somehow unaware is illogical given her ranking within Hydra. So if I knew my employer abducts inhuman kids and then I stumble upon some kids in a building I just blew up, the natural reaction of a committed racist Hydra agent would probably be to assume those kids are potential inhumans.

May didn't know there were kids in the building. She asked if there was anyone inside and they told her it didn't matter. The kid she saved in Bahrain is responsible for Cambridge. May change of heart is realizing everything Hydra told her has been wrong.

See above. And yes I agree the kid she saved is responsible for Cambridge but I am judging May based on how she judged others. The decision to save the kid was her choice and her choice alone. If May wants to then become a racist and blame all Inhumans for Cambridge then it's fair game for me to point out how absolutely morally bankrupt that decision is given she was directly involved in the situation that allowed that kid to survive. She has effectively condemned Mace to death and countless Inhumans to torture for something she and and not them could have stopped. She could have stopped Cambridge. Mace could not have because he was not in Bahrain.

So I am not making a point that I actually believe she is responsible for Cambridge. I'm making the point that her hatred and bigotry is especially stupid considering only she could have done something to prevent Cambridge and not all the Inhumans she condemned to oppression, torture, and death as a result of her decision to spare a kid's life.

[Ceebiro]

About half a season behind but it's kind of disappointing if Mace is indeed dead. I liked him as the Director. He had a certain charisma about him. Waste of a character if true.

[Immortal Weapon]

That May is not a monster because she only wanted to kill Mace and didn't give a shit who was inside the building?

It's a case of even evil has standards. She is willing to accept killing her Hydra brethren to get to Mace but not killing kids.

[Elegant Dreamer]

Griffin was previously mentioned in Season 1 by Garrett when he was expositioning to Ward when they were raiding The Fridge

The terrigen is the stuff that Radcliffe had re-created .And anyway it was never the terrigen that was the trouble it was the metal from the diviner that Jai Ying had cooked infused into it

Thanks for explaining.

[Cyke]

Mace, we hardly knew ye. You died a good death.

I'm always uncomfortable from people getting knocked out (drugged, gassed, etc), dreaming, and *then* dying in their sleep -- almost like Freddy but nowhere near as outlandish. For some reason that never sits well with me, no matter where I see it. American Horror Story did it a couple times. I think even that old 90s Knight Rider movie had that happen to Devon.

[Forseti]

It's a case of even evil has standards. She is willing to accept killing her Hydra brethren to get to Mace but not killing kids.

Let's not forget that the people in the Framework are still who they are outside of the Framework. They just have a lot of fake narrative on top of it. They all have a point of divergence in their personal narrative at a moment of great regret. For May, that was the killing of a child in Bharain. I'm pretty sure her change of heart is because the situation with the kids in mortal danger shined a light on that point of divergence and that caused the fake narrative to start to unravel and the personality formed by her real narrative to break through.