Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[XPac]

Still confused why Jenna shot Fitz, then cried watching him go all angstly.

Why did they put Fitz and Adia in the same cell anyway?



Yay! I actually cheered seeing he's back!

Yeah, I'm glad Ghost Rider returned.

And I think he sort of needed to. The whole first half of the season almost feels like an entirely different show than the second half, so Robbie returning to tie things together sort of feels right.

[AndrewCrossett]

Still confused why Jenna shot Fitz, then cried watching him go all angstly.

Why did they put Fitz and Adia in the same cell anyway?

She shot Fitz with an Icer to knock him out... he was confused and traumatized and they didn't have time in that situation to talk him down.

That may have been the only functioning containment cell left after the destruction of most of the base. They didn't know Aida could do anything other than teleport, and that cell inhibited teleportation. (But not the other Inhuman powers they didn't know she had.)

[remydat]

Sex crazed? Really? I call this a classic case of seeing what you want to see. Every bad thing she did as a human she did before showing any lust at all. The lust she did show was actually more of a lust for violence, even. Also, I can't look inside the writer's mind to see their motivations, I only saw a emotionally immature person obsessing over someone the machine she had been earlier had been focussing her attentions on for the entirety of its existance. What's happening now is perfectly in line with what happened before.

In your mind perhaps, but not in any universal kind of storytelling appropriateness. And actually, she stated her intent to bring out her "Madam Hydra" ways going forward when she was with Superior. Only worse, you know, because she human and her decisions are now influenced by her emotions. And probably terribly tainted by the Darkhold.

No I'm not seeing what I want to see. I'm interpreting things based on my perspective which is different from yours. If that means I'm seeing what I want to see then by the same token, you are seeing what you want to see because there is no objective truth here. IMO, to try and pretend that this is just a violent response as if sex and violence isn't typically intertwined in these terrible crazy women tropes is odd. If sex were not an element of it then she wouldn't freak out because Fitz never said he didn't want to be friends with her so obviously the reason why she feels rejected is because she can't have him sexually. Otherwise, she would be content with her and Fitz developing a close platonic relationship.

And I never claimed it's shitty story telling in some universal kind of way. I don't speak for the universe. I speak for myself so I think it's obvious my statements are my subjective opinion because opinions by definition are subjective. I understand why you disagree with me and you are entitled to that disagreement we aren't going to agree on this period. To each his/her own.

[remydat]

She shot Fitz with an Icer to knock him out... he was confused and traumatized and they didn't have time in that situation to talk him down.

That may have been the only functioning containment cell left after the destruction of most of the base. They didn't know Aida could do anything other than teleport, and that cell inhibited teleportation. (But not the other Inhuman powers they didn't know she had.)

Except she doesn't really know what his state of mind is because she doesn't talk to him long enough to gauge his state of mind as she shoots him right after they return with Mac. The fact they returned with Mac is evidence that things have obviously changed from when he first woke up as they saved Mac. She could have just shot AIDA and then talked to Fitz. Further AIDA is the one with the powers not Fitz so there is really no security reason to lock Fitz up with her as Fitz is not a threat given he has never been a fighter and Simmons has a crew of trained agents with her.

I think really what is going on here is what YoYo said. Simmons thinks Fitz may still be in love with AIDA so her neutralizing both and then locking up both and no one trying to talk to them when they wake up is so that Simmons can listen in on their conversation to figure out whether he's the Fitz that loves her or the Fitz that loves AIDA.

[j9ac9k]

1 - Jansen was a sleeper agent this season in terms of acting - didn't expect anything and she hit it out of the park!
2 - Season's not over yet, folks. I understand the criticisms, (I hate "women as robots or monsters who are out of control!!" trope) but you don't actually know how they're going to end this. They made it seem like they might make Ophelia sympathetic and that she was going to be forgiven just to yank the rug out. How do you know there's not another twist in the finale to upset that trope? There's almost certainly going to be *some* kind of curve-ball...

[j9ac9k]

If sex were not an element of it then she wouldn't freak out because Fitz never said he didn't want to be friends with her so obviously the reason why she feels rejected is because she can't have him sexually. Otherwise, she would be content with her and Fitz developing a close platonic relationship.

It may be splitting hairs at this point, but from their conversation, Ophelia wasn't speaking at length about the pleasures of sexual intercourse with Fitz, but about how he's a romantic and what broke her was him saying he only had room for one person in his heart, not his bed. She also had a chance to have sex with the Russian, but thought it would feel better to bash his head in. She's more the "love-crazy" stereotype than "sex-crazed" imo. (not that that's any less tired or misogynistic...) I fully expect her to say, "I will not be ignored, Leopold...!"

[Forseti]

No I'm not seeing what I want to see. I'm interpreting things based on my perspective which is different from yours.

Your perspective sadly involves things not shown on the screen by any stretch of the imagination. You see a "trope" and you dress it up with things you're making up.

If that means I'm seeing what I want to see then by the same token, you are seeing what you want to see because there is no objective truth here.

There is an objective truth. No sexual references at all. Not explicitly, not implicitly. She wanted to play house with Fitz. There's no hint at all she wanted to get in his pants, she wanted to pick furniture for their house, as if that was in any way ever going to happen. She was acting like an 8 year old.

IMO, to try and pretend that this is just a violent response as if sex and violence isn't typically intertwined in these terrible crazy women tropes is odd.

What is typical has no bearing on the specifics of this instance. To pretend that it does, that's what's odd.

If sex were not an element of it then she wouldn't freak out because Fitz never said he didn't want to be friends with her so obviously the reason why she feels rejected is because she can't have him sexually. Otherwise, she would be content with her and Fitz developing a close platonic relationship.

Wait, what? People can only ever freak out if sex is involved? Really? He said he didn't have room in his heart for her, and she freaked out like a child. She threw a very child-like temper tantrum, because she's an immature thing that can't deal with rejection.

And I never claimed it's shitty story telling in some universal kind of way. I don't speak for the universe. I speak for myself so I think it's obvious my statements are my subjective opinion because opinions by definition are subjective. I understand why you disagree with me and you are entitled to that disagreement we aren't going to agree on this period. To each his/her own.

Your opinions seem to be based on things not shown on the screen. That's what I disagree with.

[darewithpeace]

wow that episode was really good, one of the best of the season so far! love Mallory Jansen acting on this one. cant wait for ghost rider.

[darewithpeace]

heres for everyone who havent seen it

[Stars & Stripes]

That shot of Daisy at 9 seconds of the promo is raising a bit of an alarm for me, probably due to how it relates to the unresolved thread of the fate of the LMD Daisies we saw in 4x15. Maybe the Daisy we see there is one of them?

[AndrewCrossett]

The fake Daisies probably got blown up. In any case, I think the notion of team members being secret LMD's is soooo last arc. I doubt they'll go that route, especially with everything else they've got on their plate to resolve this episode.

[j9ac9k]

Also, Ophelia as a name is a bit on the nose in terms of bad tropes for female characters, isn't it? It's like the writers admit they're leaning into it. She's a tragic character, but for all the wrong reasons.

[remydat]

It may be splitting hairs at this point, but from their conversation, Ophelia wasn't speaking at length about the pleasures of sexual intercourse with Fitz, but about how he's a romantic and what broke her was him saying he only had room for one person in his heart, not his bed. She also had a chance to have sex with the Russian, but thought it would feel better to bash his head in. She's more the "love-crazy" stereotype than "sex-crazed" imo. (not that that's any less tired or misogynistic...) I fully expect her to say, "I will not be ignored, Leopold...!"

She wanted a romantic relationship. Last I checked sex was part of a romantic relationship. Like I have a functioning brain. I know that sex is implied anytime someone desires a romantic relationship unless you think Fitz and Ophelia were waiting for marriage, lol. Like give me a break, I'm not an idiot.

She specifically talks about feeling the ecstasy of touch that Fitz felt in the framework with her. I know what makes me feel ecstasy touching and it generally involves sexual contact. Like are you seriously pretending that you don't get that they will not come right out and be vulgar about it? This isn't HBO. It's ABC and the show has never described sex in vulgar teams.

And she doesn't want to have sex with a robot. She wants to have sex with a human as part of a romantic relationship. Hence why she starts to make out with the robot but then bashes his head in because she realizes it can never be the same because he's a robot. They can't share in the ecstasy if touch together.

[remydat]

Also, Ophelia as a name is a bit on the nose in terms of bad tropes for female characters, isn't it? It's like the writers admit they're leaning into it. She's a tragic character, but for all the wrong reasons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophelia

Very good point. Ophelia as a character is an example of erotomania as the above notes but we are suppose to pretend that there is no trope here, lol. The name is just coincidence. Nothing to see here.

[remydat]

Your perspective sadly involves things not shown on the screen by any stretch of the imagination. You see a "trope" and you dress it up with things you're making up.

There is an objective truth. No sexual references at all. Not explicitly, not implicitly. She wanted to play house with Fitz. There's no hint at all she wanted to get in his pants, she wanted to pick furniture for their house, as if that was in any way ever going to happen. She was acting like an 8 year old.

What is typical has no bearing on the specifics of this instance. To pretend that it does, that's what's odd.

Wait, what? People can only ever freak out if sex is involved? Really? He said he didn't have room in his heart for her, and she freaked out like a child. She threw a very child-like temper tantrum, because she's an immature thing that can't deal with rejection.


Your opinions seem to be based on things not shown on the screen. That's what I disagree with.

This entire argument makes no sense as it pretends like adults who are romantically involved are celibate. I don't need sex to be referenced to know it's implied by a romantic relationship. If you do then that's your subjective opinion based on willful ignorance of what a romantic relationship entails. This is not HBO. They aren't going to be vulgar or crass with references to it as they know it's implied in any adult romantic relationship.

Further in the playing house scene you reference she specifically says she's felt Fitz's touch before and then says now she gets to experience the ecstasy he felt each time. But hey I guess you think she only meant holding hands because you know i really feel ecstasy from just holding hands in a completely non sexual way. SMH!

And no people can freak out if sex is not invovled. The point here is Fitz never claimed he couldn't be friends with her. So if all Ophelia wanted was love without sex then there would be no reason for her to freak out. She understands well enough that humans love each other platonically and romantically so she obviously freaked out because she wanted a romantic relationship not a platonic one and every adult knows the key difference between the 2 is sex and the ecstasy it brings.

So no you are being purposely obtuse. There is no objective truth here. Her talk of the ecstasy of touch can clearly be interpreted by a rational adult as a euphemism for sex.

You are just trying to act like your opinion is superior to mine because you don't agree and so are trying to pretend your opinion is rooted in some objective truth when it's not. No story is every 100% explicit. There are always elements of it that rely on inference. You are just ignoring any inferences related to sex like the desire for a romantic rationahip or the term ecstasy of touch because they don't suit the narrative you wish to believe.