Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[TriggerWarning]

An overall amazing journey. Show started weak as hell. Got surprisingly awesome with the late season one twist. Flipped between good and not so good the next few seasons as it tried to stay connected to the MCU. Got amazing when they finally said **** it and did their own thing without trying to tie into the MCU (though the lack of Thanos snap ramifications is still a mega plothole since they actually mentioned Thanos).

I didn't find the finale to be spectacular but it was sufficiently satisfying and nice epitaph to the series which was wildly inconsistent over its run but did have some amazing highs, more so the last few seasons.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Heck of a ride and heck of a finale! Getting together all those other SHIELD agents (whoa, Victoria Hand!) gave me the wider scope I felt I was missing all season, and seeing Mack on the Helicarrier was incredible. Simmons desperately trying to get it together and Fitz returning only to reveal they stayed away for so long because of their child shows just how much heart they brought to the show.

I kind of expected Coulson to die completely and for good, but him flying away on Lola made for a great finale as well.

Poor Garrett, though. Despite his creepy smile, I was starting to believe he could've been a good guy, but he was killed and everyone just kind of kept going.

I understand the costs and schedules of the actual actors might have prevented actual appearances, but I'd have loved to get some callbacks to people like Mockingbird and Hunter or Deathlok. Or now that the show doesn't need to worry about conflicting with the MCU a few passing references to things like The Snap (if they are still pre-Endgame) or Tony's death (if they are now in 2023).

I was hoping for Mockingbird as well (and maybe even something regarding Ward), but I think Davis getting an appearance more than made up for it.

Coulson's been around since the first Iron Man and it's been so long since the first Avengers movie that rather than it being cool to see him on a tv show, it's become so much cooler to rewatch him in the movies, talking smack to Stark or Thor or working with Black Widow now that we've become so accustomed to seeing him as the TV show guy. It wasn't always the best, but I have to give it credit for some really good stories over the years.

#onceanagentalwaysanagent

Yeah, I mean, Clark Gregg first played Coulson in the same movie RDJ first played Tony Stark, and with him in the movies and the show (and voicing Coulson on the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon), if this is his farewell performance, it's pretty huge. And watching him in MCU movies gives kind of a crossover feel.

- When Deke stayed behind, I kinda wanted everyone to go, "Okay. Bye." with little fanfare. Sure, I know it's unrealistic for these characters, but I wanted to believe, dammit.

I think it was enough every time someone mentioned Daisy going back and saving Deke she gave a half-hearted "Sure".

Could Deke's timeline by any chance be the same one Captain America went back to live out his life with Peggy Carter in? It'd be nice to think that just after Sousa vanished/died that Steve came back to balance the loss.

Not sure if the timelines work that way, but it's interesting to think that Captain America had to go back and forth through time to end up with Peggy and Sousa had to travel through time to end up with Daisy. Still a shame Agent Carter only lasted two seasons.

[AndrewCrossett]

Getting together all those other SHIELD agents (whoa, Victoria Hand!)

Just gotta say... 1983 Victoria Hand was seriously hot.

Poor Garrett, though. Despite his creepy smile, I was starting to believe he could've been a good guy, but he was killed and everyone just kind of kept going.

Garrett was always going to be in it for himself... he would have betrayed them again the next time he got butthurt about something. But, I do agree he should have gotten a bit more respect than "Eh, he was a double agent, eff him." Considering his last action saved their lives, and probably the world.

[AndersonHoran]

Parallels

[marshal88]

final read

[Ascended]

I see we're not bothering with spoiler tags.

I thought it was a good finale. Maybe a bit rushed in places, maybe some missed opportunities (no Deathlok or Grant Ward or Fury or Hill?) but entertaining and I liked the call backs to the films, like their use of the quantum realm. Would've been nice to know what year they ended up in, 2019 or 2013. I'm assuming 2019.

I said earlier in the thread that they were foreshadowing Coulson's death so hard it might be a red herring but I honestly expected him to go out in a heroic last stand. I am surprised and pleased that not only did Coulson survive, but appears to be making peace with his "situation" and looking to the future and the next batch of recruits.

I think everyone's sendoff in the epilogue scene was fitting and I'm glad it was happy endings all around (even though I think fiction is usually better with a dose of sadness and sacrifice), and while I highly doubt it'll happen it *does* leave most of the characters open for a return appearance in film or streaming. Quake especially. But for me, I think the best bits were the return of Lola, and the SHIELD Coulson Academy. Those just seemed like really great ways to bring everything back around to that first episode while acknowledging all the crap that has happened over the last seven seasons.

[AndrewCrossett]

I think everyone's sendoff in the epilogue scene was fitting and I'm glad it was happy endings all around (even though I think fiction is usually better with a dose of sadness and sacrifice)

If Joss Whedon had been the showrunner, you can bet it would have gone that way. But Jed and Maurissa seem to be less bloodthirsty and more sentimental. You can tell if you watch the vid of the last table reading. And TBH, Joss's "kill your darlings" ethos was starting to get a little worn out and... even worse... predictable.

[juan678]

fan poster


https://www.instagram.com/p/CDhwsS9hsvt/

[LoganAlpha30X33]

The Inhumans always struck me as a bit like some crazy cult...

[Ascended]

If Joss Whedon had been the showrunner, you can bet it would have gone that way. But Jed and Maurissa seem to be less bloodthirsty and more sentimental. You can tell if you watch the vid of the last table reading. And TBH, Joss's "kill your darlings" ethos was starting to get a little worn out and... even worse... predictable.

I'm not as familiar with Joss as many here, never watched Buffy or any of that. But yeah, it seems like he takes that narrative tool and goes way too hard with it.

I expected a lot of deaths, or at least Coulson's, and I was happily surprised. I mean, even Deke made it out alive and I would've bet money on him dying!

I've never been a *huge* fan of this show. My tastes in tv tend to skew darker and more mature; Game of Thrones, Sons of Anarchy, Peaky Blinders, Netflix's Marvel stuff, shows like that. AoS is not my usual cup of tea; it's been a guilty pleasure, but one I always eventually wander back to (even if it takes a few seasons). But I'll be damned if I haven't grown really fond of this cast, especially Cloe's Quake. I know the odds of it happening are so low I'm more likely to win the power ball, but I wish Quake (at least) would continue on in a Disney+ show, or get a cameo in the films or something. You think about it, the MCU has had Quake, May, and FitzSimmons longer than Ant-Man, Falcon, and Winter Soldier. Not gonna be the same without them, even if they never did cameo in a film.

I'll take Coulson's happy ending and call it good there, dude has been through enough. But Quake.....she'd fit the rest of the MCU pretty well, and I think I'm gonna feel the loss.

[AndrewCrossett]

I wouldn't say it's in my top 10 shows of all time, but it's definitely been my favorite network TV show for the past few years, with the possible exception of The Good Place. They would be foolish to leave Quake unused, especially if they're going to introduce S.W.O.R.D. (as the Spider Man: FFH post credits suggests they might do).

The others except for Mack and Yo-Yo appear to have retired from Lives of Adventure, which is sort of a shame but appropriate.

They'd need to come up with a superhero name for Kora, though. Maybe she can be the MCU Firestar?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well remember that May had technically retired from active duty before this all started anyway, and Fitz and Simmons were never really supposed to be field agents and there'd probably be no small mountain of work for them to do to keep them busy for years to come...whether the characters actually appear or not they could be mentioned in future movies, Fitz and Simmons if the situation dealt with tech or biological something or other...

[AndrewCrossett]

Any use of the characters in the movies would have to be done in a way that viewers wouldn't have to know their backstories. This would be easiest to do with characters who have obvious powers (Daisy, Yo-Yo, Kora) so that people will know right away why they're there.

It's interesting that in the movies, SHIELD doesn't seem to exist anymore but in AoS it's back to being a full agency with an academy, at least one helicarrier and many agents. It's hard to have SHIELD fully functional again but not getting referenced in the movies. If it does get referenced, will Mack be the director?

[Ascended]

Any use of the characters in the movies would have to be done in a way that viewers wouldn't have to know their backstories. This would be easiest to do with characters who have obvious powers (Daisy, Yo-Yo, Kora) so that people will know right away why they're there.

Honestly, I think it'd be easy enough to bring any of them in for minor appearances. If the movie hero walks into a lab, there's FitzSimmons working. If a bunch of agents barge through a door with Fury, there's May. That covers "cameo" appearances easily enough (like Jarvis showing up in Endgame).

If you wanted the AoS to have a bigger role in a film or Disney+ show, you can introduce them with a basic "these are some of our best agents, they've been with us for a while" comment from Fury and not have to get into the details of the AoS history. They'd essentially be treated as new characters, their history on the show not contradicted, but not really acknowledged either. It'd be the same way the movies reference the Incredible Hulk film without directly talking about it; Banner mentions breaking Harlem in Avengers but not the details of the movie. Thunderbolt Ross shows up but never mentions the events of Incredible Hulk. That movie is canon, the films simply don't talk directly about it. AoS could be treated the same way.

One of the main problems with the tv side crossing over into the films (aside from contracts, schedules, etc) is audience awareness. If you're sitting there watching a Marvel movie in the theater, odds are you've seen most of the other movies and are relatively up to date on who's who. The movies are built on that assumption. But a lot of movie goers don't watch the tv shows, so if Quake walks onto the screen, audiences have no idea who she is and think the movie is introducing a brand new character.

It's interesting that in the movies, SHIELD doesn't seem to exist anymore but in AoS it's back to being a full agency with an academy, at least one helicarrier and many agents. It's hard to have SHIELD fully functional again but not getting referenced in the movies. If it does get referenced, will Mack be the director?

It's kind of vague, really.

Fury pulls an entire crew of SHIELD agents together on short notice, along with a helicarrier, in Age of Ultron, and we see Fury doing "spy stuff" in other films like Far From Home and Infinity War, so the guy is still in the game somehow, but the films never explain if he's got SHIELD running under the radar or if it's a new group he's put together or anything. Far From Home introduces us to SWORD, but how long has that group been a thing? Did Fury build it after Carol Danvers fell into a Blockbuster in the 90's? Did he build it after SHIELD fell? Is SWORD accountable to the UN or other government body, or do those guys not even know SWORD exists?

So a movie *could* bring in the tv guys using this nebulous approach to Fury.

As far as AoS goes, I think SHIELD is a legitimate agency again right? A few seasons back there was the whole thing with Talbot being the "public face" of SHIELD while Coulson was the power behind the throne (and he could have secretly been answering to Fury, the secret-secret guy in charge). That could likely fit around whatever Fury's been up to without too much hassle or having to explain seven seasons of a tv show Marvel Studios didn't make.

As for the movie end of it, even if they say SHIELD was made an official agency again (as per the show) there's no reason for any of the movie heroes to care or comment on it. Nat, Clint, and Cap worked for SHIELD sure, but after the events of Winter Soldier none of them are going to want to go back to it.

[AndrewCrossett]

But if SHIELD exists, and there's a world-threatening crisis in a future movie (I'm guessing there will be), it wouldn't make sense for SHIELD not to be referenced, if not front and center. That's why showing the helicarrier and Mack as director seemed like a pretty bold move to me, if they're at all interested in AoS still being MCU canon.

The Avengers were Nick Fury's baby, and SHIELD was central in those movies because he was its director and SHIELD was useful as support. Since the future movies won't focus on the Avengers, it makes sense that SHIELD will be there, and maybe occasionally useful, but not working hand-in-hand with the superheroes anymore. In that case it certainly wouldn't kill them to have Mack as the director if they need him to be standing around in a war room somewhere with the occasional line... he's not going to be a major character like Fury, but he can do the job as well as anyone and it's a good easter egg for fans of the show.

Quake and Kora would also be a great addition to any SWORD-based movies going forward. I guess it probably depends on whether the movies-vs-TV ego battle is still going on after the merger.