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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    It's grist for an interesting philosophical debate, but when they actually start fighting and killing each other over it--endangering more innocent lives in the process--it pretty much robs both sides of any real moral imperative on the issue.
    Civil War as it was written suffers from two main flaws that are easily fixed, and one that takes a bit of editorial courage.

    First, everybody was written like your standard Mark Millar ******* protagonist. Not having Millar write it fixes this.

    Second, you need to add an actual villain everybody can put their differences aside over, who is behind a lot but not all of it.

    Thirdly, you need to admit that Stark's position of holding superheroes accountable for their actions is sane and Captain America's position of vigilantes being allowed to do whatever they want is lunacy and not have Stark go nuts to make Cap look like the better choice, and end it with (a variation of) the Registration Thing being the new status quo and everybody except lunatics like the Punisher being more or less okay with that.

    (Or just do what DC did with the same story concept on Kingdom Come, and make it an out-of-continuity story)
    Last edited by Carabas; 05-03-2014 at 01:24 AM.

  2. #92
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    Civil war sucks , bringing it to the big screen for the MCU would be terrible. Since Mark Miller is now in charge of Fox marvel cinematic universe , let him ruin their universe with stupid ideas.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Civil War as it was written suffers from two main flaws that are easily fixed, and one that takes a bit of editorial courage.

    First, everybody was written like your standard Mark Millar ******* protagonist. Not having Millar write it fixes this.

    Second, you need to add an actual villain everybody can put their differences aside over, who is behind a lot but not all of it.

    Thirdly, you need to admit that Stark's position of holding superheroes accountable for their actions is sane and Captain America's position of vigilantes being allowed to do whatever they want is lunacy and not have Stark go nuts to make Cap look like the better choice, and end it with (a variation of) the Registration Thing being the new status quo and everybody except lunatics like the Punisher being more or less okay with that.

    (Or just do what DC did with the same story concept on Kingdom Come, and make it an out-of-continuity story)
    It was the spin offs that ruined Civil War IMO. Millar wrote in character (with Tony torn by necessity and Cap fighting for freedom), it was everyone else who wrote Tony as a nazi and Cap as a terrorist.

    Having an actual villain would have missed the point (as other writers did, when they made Tony a nazi).


    And I can see Civil War being the plot of Avengers 4 (Avengers 3 being Infinity Gauntlet).

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Or just do what DC did with the same story concept on Kingdom Come, and make it an out-of-continuity story
    IMO, Marvel did it first, and better, with Squadron Supreme. Still, the thing about superheroes, or any character that you want to endure over time, is that there have to be some constants to their brand. Radical change might make for a good story, but it's not what's necessarily best for the brand. It's why I think events like Civil War are bad for the monthlies, or the films.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    IMO, Marvel did it first, and better, with Squadron Supreme. Still, the thing about superheroes, or any character that you want to endure over time, is that there have to be some constants to their brand. Radical change might make for a good story, but it's not what's necessarily best for the brand. It's why I think events like Civil War are bad for the monthlies, or the films.
    Judge Dredd: has been in continuous publication since '77. No reboots, everything sticks, no reset buttons, even ages in more or less real time. It can be done.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Judge Dredd: has been in continuous publication since '77. No reboots, everything sticks, no reset buttons, even ages in more or less real time. It can be done.
    Apples and Oranges. Dredd doesn't have to inhabit a reality that's recognizably similar to our own, therefore what changes he has to adapt to are fully under the writer's control. Further, he doesn't have to service an audience nearly the size of the Big Two's.

  7. #97
    BANNED Mikekerr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Civil War as it was written suffers from two main flaws that are easily fixed, and one that takes a bit of editorial courage.

    First, everybody was written like your standard Mark Millar ******* protagonist. Not having Millar write it fixes this.

    Second, you need to add an actual villain everybody can put their differences aside over, who is behind a lot but not all of it.

    Thirdly, you need to admit that Stark's position of holding superheroes accountable for their actions is sane and Captain America's position of vigilantes being allowed to do whatever they want is lunacy and not have Stark go nuts to make Cap look like the better choice, and end it with (a variation of) the Registration Thing being the new status quo and everybody except lunatics like the Punisher being more or less okay with that.

    (Or just do what DC did with the same story concept on Kingdom Come, and make it an out-of-continuity story)

    If yo keep the SHRQA g concept that the law applies to everyone with powers, not only those that act as vigilantes Stark's position is neither sane nor moral. Unless you believe those that are different have no legal rights

    If it had been a Super-hero registration act it would have made Stark position tenable, Instead it was a super-human registration act with provisions that were essentially chattel slavery

    They have to stay the hell away from endorsing authoritarian thugs enforcing slavery in the TV series, Marvel readers a tend to be OK with people working for outright evil governments but I don't think the TV public would go for that

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arvandor View Post
    It was the spin offs that ruined Civil War IMO. Millar wrote in character (with Tony torn by necessity and Cap fighting for freedom), it was everyone else who wrote Tony as a nazi and Cap as a terrorist..
    Was Tony in character when he cloned Thor...because they needed the Big Three in Civil War...because?

    The main problem with Civil War is that while the concept was based on personal beliefs, IE character, the series itself was purely plot driven. A Thor clone shoe horned in because they needed Thor, Cap fighting only with fists, etc.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Apples and Oranges. Dredd doesn't have to inhabit a reality that's recognizably similar to our own...
    It's probably a world that's closer to our own than the DCU.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Apples and Oranges. Dredd doesn't have to inhabit a reality that's recognizably similar to our own, therefore what changes he has to adapt to are fully under the writer's control. Further, he doesn't have to service an audience nearly the size of the Big Two's.
    I'd say Dredd's world is more similar to ours than the DCU/616. It does a better job of showing the diversity of ordinary citizens, and events carry actual repercussions that continue on as opposed to magically disappearing as soon as the mega-event crossover is done.

    Side Note; I would only approve of a Civil War storyline if it included the G n' R song somewhere.
    ...Expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Was Tony in character when he cloned Thor...because they needed the Big Three in Civil War...because?

    The main problem with Civil War is that while the concept was based on personal beliefs, IE character, the series itself was purely plot driven. A Thor clone shoe horned in because they needed Thor, Cap fighting only with fists, etc.
    Everyone was out of character for Civil War.

  12. #102
    Viva la Cyclops Red Lotus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeplejack2112 View Post
    I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens. You know that at some point S.H.I.E.L.D. will be re-built. Perhaps when that happens we will see appearances by some of the other well known agents. I am kind of hoping they don't do a mind control thing with Ward. I hope he truly is evil and he either gets shipped off, or he gets killed off. In any case I enjoy the show. I enjoy seeing what Marvel has in store for the viewers from week to week.
    I would rather Ward stay evil. He is more interesting as a villain. If he isn't killed off at the end of the season have him be a recurring character who the team faces from time to time.
    McKenstry those with the most opinions often have the fewest facts.

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    Christopher Yost Cyclops = Awesome and Right, while Xavier = USELESS JERK-O! Viva la Cyclops!

    Facts are the enemy of truth.

    You gonna get us out of here. With that tight-ass Wolverine outfit on. Now, let's make it happen, *******

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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by steeplejack2112 View Post
    I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens. You know that at some point S.H.I.E.L.D. will be re-built.
    I hope it won't be as big and powerful in the rebuild. An all knowing, super powerful agency is hard to write around. Their lack of presence in Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 are prime examples. SHIELD should have been watching Selving after the Avengers and they should have an eye on Stark at all times. A pared down agency makes it easier to write them out of future Marvel movies and make the heroes the only ones that can stop whatever.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donaldbain View Post
    I hope it won't be as big and powerful in the rebuild. An all knowing, super powerful agency is hard to write around. Their lack of presence in Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 are prime examples. SHIELD should have been watching Selving after the Avengers and they should have an eye on Stark at all times. A pared down agency makes it easier to write them out of future Marvel movies and make the heroes the only ones that can stop whatever.
    But then they wouldn't be SHIELD. They barely would even be the CIA.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Thirdly, you need to admit that Stark's position of holding superheroes accountable for their actions is sane and Captain America's position of vigilantes being allowed to do whatever they want is lunacy
    Except that wasn't really Captain America's position. He wasn't against holding people responsible for their actions nor was he opposed to registration, per se. He had a problem with blanket, compulsory registration under threat of incarceration. The fact of the matter is, in the Marvel universe as structured, unregistered superheroes had been getting the job done for years. It only became an issue under Millar's ham-fisted attempt to "Ultimatize" the 616 universe and apply "real world" logic to it.

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