Strongest avenger

[ARkadelphia]

Well technically gilgamesh is the most powerful eternal in terms of strength(including thanos) and can trade his psyonic/enegery/magic based ability and immortality to further increase it. So he should rank near the top. People always forget about him.

Last I saw, Gilgamesh was fat and out of shape though. Did that change after the last herc solo series?

[kevlon]

Richard Rider was a member of the secret avengers. He's definitely up on that list, especially when he had access to the whole Nova force.

[Mike]

Marvel has truly matched DC in that respect.

And, for me, that's one of the many things wrong with Marvel these days.

[JudicatorPrime]

And, for me, that's one of the many things wrong with Marvel these days.

In some ways strength is just catching up with the more esoteric definitions of power. Marvel has always had far more powerful beings when it comes to psionic powers, or magic, or energy manipulative/cosmic powers. Before Hulk was World Breaker, or Hyperion used pure strength on a planetary scale, we had toddler Franklin Richards creating his own alternate universe and being called the first human Celestial. Gods like Hercules have always had that level of strength, but now more and more mortals equal or exceed that. If Marvel still subscribes to the notion that mankind will inevitably become gods, then we're right on track.

In fact, I was kind of hoping that was the end game of Avengers No Road Home -- to show that humans are no longer "lessers" and characters like Hulk, Scarlet Witch and Spectrum have levels of power that even the gods themselves should respect, if not fear. It won't happen, but it would be an interesting sea change.

[Dthirds3]

Last I saw, Gilgamesh was fat and out of shape though. Did that change after the last herc solo series?

Well he got happier, then Aaron killed every eternal except him and fell in to more depression when he realise they didn't even care to kill him off when they were resting the entire franchise.

[kilderkin]

Well he got happier, then Aaron killed every eternal except him and fell in to more depression when he realise they didn't even care to kill him off when they were resting the entire franchise.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten they had been killed off

[rdman]

Hyperion and Sentry.

[Panic]

And, for me, that's one of the many things wrong with Marvel these days.

I feel the same way.

[XPac]

And, for me, that's one of the many things wrong with Marvel these days.

I never liked strength feats on a planetary scale. They never made sense, because they are never that strong in actual fights. If Hyperion can move a planet, he could kill someone like Thing with the slightest flick his little pinky finger. But it will NEVER be potrayed that way. He might be stronger than Thing, maybe twice or even thre times as strong... but not billions and billions and billions of times stronger.

That said, at this point I'm basically sort of used to compartamentalizing those sort of feats into almost a different category and ignoring them in actual fights because frankly that's just what you have to do. It's one of those times you just have to sort of shrug and say "it's comics."

[XPac]

In some ways strength is just catching up with the more esoteric definitions of power. Marvel has always had far more powerful beings when it comes to psionic powers, or magic, or energy manipulative/cosmic powers. Before Hulk was World Breaker, or Hyperion used pure strength on a planetary scale, we had toddler Franklin Richards creating his own alternate universe and being called the first human Celestial. Gods like Hercules have always had that level of strength, but now more and more mortals equal or exceed that. If Marvel still subscribes to the notion that mankind will inevitably become gods, then we're right on track.

In fact, I was kind of hoping that was the end game of Avengers No Road Home -- to show that humans are no longer "lessers" and characters like Hulk, Scarlet Witch and Spectrum have levels of power that even the gods themselves should respect, if not fear. It won't happen, but it would be an interesting sea change.

Really at this point it's almost ridiculous that humans are considered lessers. How many times have human from earth beaten gods, demons, and cosmic beings. Skrulls, Dormammu, Galactus, etc... at a certain point there should be an obvious patter forming here. Don't mess with the humans of earth. They should not only respect the humans of earth... at this point they should ourright fear them like you said. I'm amazed so many are still willing to mess with earth after all this time. Surely there has to be easier planets to mess with.

[Nomads1]

And, for me, that's one of the many things wrong with Marvel these days.

I agree. I hated the Super "can do everything a writer thinks of and wants" man of the silver/bronze age. I used to like Supes in the Justice Legue, where they seemed to keep him more in check. I only started to really enjoy Superman on a continuous base post- COIE, when John Byrne reduced his powers and brought him a bit down to earth. Still, Supes will always be the Gold standard for me in terms of power when it comes to DC (even though the Spectre outclasses him. However, I don't think of the Living Tribunal nor Odin either when I rank the Marvel heroes). In Marvel, that's Thor ( the word god should tell you something, for heavens sake). Both, he and Superman have. IMHO, stood the only test that really matters, the test of time. I really don't care for any writer's pet, overpowered POS, flavour of the month character that suddenly is supposed to be the biggest bad around (even if my favorite Marvel character, Wonder Man may fall in that category) In my book, Thor is the clean up batter at Marvel . Hulk, and perhaps Hercules , by a slight margin, may be stronger, but Thor is the most powerful. Same way Supes is over at DC. Now who is the most powerful of the two, that's a question for another day.

Peace

[JudicatorPrime]

My issue isn't that really superstrong/powerful heroes exist, it's that they're never used when crises comes along suited for their power sets.

Take Avengers No Road Home. Nyx and her children kill pretty much ALL of the gods that were on Mt. Olympus at the time. It was an easy slaughter for them. But Rocket, Hawkeye and Wanda (who is as squishy as your average human, Chaos Magic or not) are somehow "chosen" for the book -- and it looks like Rocket really was just chosen to save Hulk from himself, and Hawkeye from Hulk. Look, writers can spin any yarn that they want to, but when you don't use someone like Blue Marvel in this situation -- the perfect scenario for someone like him -- when can you use him?

And why can't writers learn to write powerful characters in really intriguing and interesting ways? I mean the ones who aren't named Thor, Hulk, or Odin? Is the inherent bias really that strong at Marvel?

[davew128]

Really at this point it's almost ridiculous that humans are considered lessers. How many times have human from earth beaten gods, demons, and cosmic beings. Skrulls, Dormammu, Galactus, etc... at a certain point there should be an obvious patter forming here. Don't mess with the humans of earth. They should not only respect the humans of earth... at this point they should ourright fear them like you said. I'm amazed so many are still willing to mess with earth after all this time. Surely there has to be easier planets to mess with.

That's been a storyline more than once. Most prominent example was Maximum Security.

[kalai]

Hickman's Avengers are kind of over powered to be fair, you have Starbrand who takes on Hulk, Hyperion, Thor at the same time.
You have Ex Nihilos and Abyss who are both Thor level, Nightmask, hard to tell, Captain Universe, more overpowered.
Then Sentry, Hyperion and Thor, Captain Marvel(Mar-vell)
then Hulk and Captain Marvel(Carol)
Or hulk can be a level up, not sure

[davew128]

Hickman's Avengers are kind of over powered to be fair, you have Starbrand who takes on Hulk, Hyperion, Thor at the same time.
You have Ex Nihilos and Abyss who are both Thor level, Nightmask, hard to tell, Captain Universe, more overpowered.
Then Sentry, Hyperion and Thor, Captain Marvel(Mar-vell)
then Hulk and Captain Marvel(Carol)
Or hulk can be a level up, not sure

Mar-Vell was NEVER that powerful. Certainly not in a strength fashion and even the nega-bands aren't cosmic power level.