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  1. #91
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Very cool! I'll take these paragraphs out of order a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    But you know what everyone ultimately agrees on? Successful economics. Even if they hate that it's successful, everyone likes having money put in their pocket. So you wanna tackle climate change, you don't blow up factories. They'll just build more and hate you for killing jobs, and learn nothing. But if you create a green technology that is more effective and cheaper, and then you bring that to the market? Consumers will shift to the superior, cheaper product and manufactures will have to go where the demand is or go bankrupt.

    Now, even with your "do science!" idea, there'll be friction. People will lose their jobs. There'll be pushback from lobbyists. You're still not going to be popular. And they'll try to limit your influence. But if you pull it off and actually get your innovations out to the public competitively, and it's an obvious and clear upgrade that makes lives easier, the economics will force a win for you. Not because you're morally right but because you'll be too wealthy and influential to stop. Eventually they'll have to adopt your practices just to stop you financially, and at that point it's too late to regress. People don't let go of advancements once they have them.

    So, your plan to start a business and introduce new technologies is the only plan that has a chance of succeeding. The rest of us, whether we're just putting out fires and hoping we inspire change, or those of us who are going to throw people into space.....all we're doing is making ourselves public enemy #1, because someone with Superman's abilities in the real world is too radical an idea to be anything but destabilizing. But saving the world through economics......that's actually how it works. That's how the world is really changed; business and innovation.
    Yep. And with the powers of Superman, all of that is possible. Eventually, as the business builds, the idea is to keep as many low-to-mid level jobs (at good living wages+) going as possible (no upkeep/etc expenses after all, since I can handle that myself). Since it's proprietary tech that's always at least ten years beyond what any other humans could do, that insulates from a lot. And if it's just the people "at the top" losing out, that influence will have an impact, but will have a buffer (everybody else). Any time one of them goes belly up, put an ad out telling the workers to come here and we'll take care of them.

    I think Amazon is a good example - even with the crappy things they do, they're still massively popular and really only get pushback in a few places. Now, imagine Amazon without the public detriment and horrible working conditions for shippers. And in several industries at once, all working as a public good (operating at very little net profit margin as most is going to the workers). Add to that the public face of saving people from burning buildings, stopping criminals and natural disasters, etc, and you've got something that's hard (though not impossible) to fight from a PR standpoint.

    On the past point, I don't think business/innovation is the only solid road to positive change - but it certainly is the path of least resistance!

    Morals and ethics are subjective. As this thread shows. Everyone here is suggesting what they believe would be the right thing to do and even within this small sample population, not everybody agrees on what "right" is. No matter what anyone did, someone would complain about it. You're not doing enough, you're doing too much, you're not doing the things you should, doing the right things wrong, you're being too involved with social development, not involved enough, blah blah blah. Governments will target you. If you bend the knee to one, the others will go after you. Bend the knee to none, and they'll all go after you. If you possess power but belong to no one, they'll call it "accountability" and try to stop you, even if what you do supports and bolsters them. And if your actions don't support them they'll label you a terrorist. They won't dare allow such a powerful wild card on the table no matter what you do. So bottom line, if you've got Clark's powers, unless you're so low key you don't do anything at all, you'll have at least half the world against you no matter what. They'll spend more time arguing and politicizing your actions than they'll spend actually considering your actions.
    Also very true. And that's why I think journalism/media reform has to be another prong of it. If media (particularly U.S. journalistic media) has a powerful entity that's fully divorced from funding needs, it'll rise up pretty quickly - and one that keeps everyone (even me) accountable will do a lot to help balance things. There's no such thing as perfect, of course, but it would at least help.

    So if any of us get powers I hope it's you and I hope you're really good at inventing and selling stuff.

    If you need some marketing help, let me know.
    I wish. lol - though my brain is always thinking of things, so you never know.

    With my luck, I'd just get the Post-Crisis Superman's powers (which I say even *as* a P-COIE fan), and all of this would be moot. LOL
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  2. #92
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    If you want my thoughts.....your answer is the only one that will (possibly!) have a positive impact on the world.

    Morals and ethics are subjective. As this thread shows. Everyone here is suggesting what they believe would be the right thing to do and even within this small sample population, not everybody agrees on what "right" is. No matter what anyone did, someone would complain about it. You're not doing enough, you're doing too much, you're not doing the things you should, doing the right things wrong, you're being too involved with social development, not involved enough, blah blah blah. Governments will target you. If you bend the knee to one, the others will go after you. Bend the knee to none, and they'll all go after you. If you possess power but belong to no one, they'll call it "accountability" and try to stop you, even if what you do supports and bolsters them. And if your actions don't support them they'll label you a terrorist. They won't dare allow such a powerful wild card on the table no matter what you do. So bottom line, if you've got Clark's powers, unless you're so low key you don't do anything at all, you'll have at least half the world against you no matter what. They'll spend more time arguing and politicizing your actions than they'll spend actually considering your actions.

    But you know what everyone ultimately agrees on? Successful economics. Even if they hate that it's successful, everyone likes having money put in their pocket. So you wanna tackle climate change, you don't blow up factories. They'll just build more and hate you for killing jobs, and learn nothing. But if you create a green technology that is more effective and cheaper, and then you bring that to the market? Consumers will shift to the superior, cheaper product and manufactures will have to go where the demand is or go bankrupt.

    Now, even with your "do science!" idea, there'll be friction. People will lose their jobs. There'll be pushback from lobbyists. You're still not going to be popular. And they'll try to limit your influence. But if you pull it off and actually get your innovations out to the public competitively, and it's an obvious and clear upgrade that makes lives easier, the economics will force a win for you. Not because you're morally right but because you'll be too wealthy and influential to stop. Eventually they'll have to adopt your practices just to stop you financially, and at that point it's too late to regress. People don't let go of advancements once they have them.

    So, your plan to start a business and introduce new technologies is the only plan that has a chance of succeeding. The rest of us, whether we're just putting out fires and hoping we inspire change, or those of us who are going to throw people into space.....all we're doing is making ourselves public enemy #1, because someone with Superman's abilities in the real world is too radical an idea to be anything but destabilizing. But saving the world through economics......that's actually how it works. That's how the world is really changed; business and innovation.

    So if any of us get powers I hope it's you and I hope you're really good at inventing and selling stuff.

    If you need some marketing help, let me know.
    I will definitely call you. For my Superman is all about marketing.

    I used terms like tearing down the world and build a new one because they sound cool (and that's what i am doing in a different way), but more accurately it was inspiring people with a more hands on approach. I don't think you can 'inspire' everyone just by being an example. That requires a kind of maturity from everyone.

    There are all kinds of people. Say i swoop down from the sky and repair a bicycle for a kid. Some would say Superman is cool. Some would say Superman could have done more important stuff then fixing a cycle. Some would start looking for bicycles to fix as Superman did that. There are different kinds of people in the world. The first group felt inspired. Second weren't inspired. Third were too much inspired. There would be so many types of responses as there are so many types of people.

    So, my Superman would target the 'more inspired' group. The ones who want to follow my Superman. And do something with their help. If that 'more inspired' group is inspiring, competent and has enough numbers you can do almost everything.

    Its fun to think of what to do when one is Superman. Personally, i would prefer something like Secret Identity. But i think one axiom will catch up with me eventually. With great responsibility comes great power. The reversed line is more famous. But the first one is accurate. The President holds great responsibility. Thus, he has lots of powers to carry out the responsibilities of running the country. Power and responsibility are almost synonymous imo. Someone can choose to stay 'harmless' or 'non-interfering'. But for how long?
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 05-18-2019 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #93
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Yep. And with the powers of Superman, all of that is possible. Eventually, as the business builds, the idea is to keep as many low-to-mid level jobs (at good living wages+) going as possible (no upkeep/etc expenses after all, since I can handle that myself). Since it's proprietary tech that's always at least ten years beyond what any other humans could do, that insulates from a lot. And if it's just the people "at the top" losing out, that influence will have an impact, but will have a buffer (everybody else). Any time one of them goes belly up, put an ad out telling the workers to come here and we'll take care of them.

    I think Amazon is a good example - even with the crappy things they do, they're still massively popular and really only get pushback in a few places. Now, imagine Amazon without the public detriment and horrible working conditions for shippers. And in several industries at once, all working as a public good (operating at very little net profit margin as most is going to the workers). Add to that the public face of saving people from burning buildings, stopping criminals and natural disasters, etc, and you've got something that's hard (though not impossible) to fight from a PR standpoint.
    I think having your own press corps will help, but people are still going to push against you even if the business side of things goes perfectly. If you make a green, eco-friendly car, you'll have Ford and Chevy and all the other car manufacturers throw the weight of their own PR engines against you, and their lobbyists will bring in government officials, assuming the government doesn't start gunning for you right out of the gate simply because you're a powerful being they don't have direct control over. Mechanics will complain about how you're putting them out of work, auto companies will complain. And they'll make things up if you don't give them anything to use (and job-stealing competition would definitely give them ammo to use).

    It'd be a hard road no matter what. Even if you did things perfectly, people would be against you. And a lot of folks wouldn't be against making things up; watch out for those "Super-JAK eats kids!" headlines on Fox News.

    On the past point, I don't think business/innovation is the only solid road to positive change - but it certainly is the path of least resistance!
    Not the only option no, but definitely the most likely to succeed.
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  4. #94
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I will definitely call you. For my Superman is all about marketing.
    Excellent. You'll find my rates very accommodating. I give discounts to worthy causes.

    Its fun to think of what to do when one is Superman. Personally, i would prefer something like Secret Identity. But i think one axiom will catch up with me eventually. With great responsibility comes great power. The reversed line is more famous. But the first one is accurate. The President holds great responsibility. Thus, he has lots of powers to carry out the responsibilities of running the country. Power and responsibility are almost synonymous imo. Someone can choose to stay 'harmless' or 'non-interfering'. But for how long?
    That's what would get me, in the end. I know that I wouldn't be able to stand on the sidelines with some issues and, sooner or later, I'd involve myself. And probably send half the world into a panic when I did. But stuff like Syria, or the situation in Flint......eventually I'd lose patience with people and "fix" the problems myself. And that would scare a whole lot of people.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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  5. #95
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think having your own press corps will help, but people are still going to push against you even if the business side of things goes perfectly. If you make a green, eco-friendly car, you'll have Ford and Chevy and all the other car manufacturers throw the weight of their own PR engines against you, and their lobbyists will bring in government officials, assuming the government doesn't start gunning for you right out of the gate simply because you're a powerful being they don't have direct control over. Mechanics will complain about how you're putting them out of work, auto companies will complain. And they'll make things up if you don't give them anything to use (and job-stealing competition would definitely give them ammo to use).
    True - that's one of the reasons I'd start with the standard Superman stuff. For one thing, it'll take time to invent all this stuff, and for another, it's good to build the public trust first. Then, with a platform, you outline what you're building and why. Neither way is easy, necessarily, but I think that would be the best way.

    It'd be a hard road no matter what. Even if you did things perfectly, people would be against you. And a lot of folks wouldn't be against making things up; watch out for those "Super-JAK eats kids!" headlines on Fox News.
    Oh, you didn't hear? There was this crazy Alien invasion, and I couldn't get there in time. I mean, the people are all ok, but all of their assets are destroyed and there wasn't such a thing as "alien attack insurance" yet. It's a real shame, I tell ya...

    Not the only option no, but definitely the most likely to succeed.
    Absolutely agreed.
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  6. #96
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    True - that's one of the reasons I'd start with the standard Superman stuff. For one thing, it'll take time to invent all this stuff, and for another, it's good to build the public trust first. Then, with a platform, you outline what you're building and why. Neither way is easy, necessarily, but I think that would be the best way.
    I still think you'd run into more aggression than you're expecting. If you just do standard Superman stuff and put out fires and pull cats from trees, people will get angry that you're not fixing the problems *they* think you should solve. Why are you wasting your time instead of taking down Assad in Syria? Or stopping illegal immigrants from entering the US? Or burning down abortion clinics (or building new ones)? People will want (and demand) you act according to their personal politics and when you don't, or you don't do it the way they want, they're not going to care that you saved people from an earthquake in Mexico.

    Plus the people who are against you will spread lies, and some people will believe it no matter what your own PR office spins. I mean, if Fox News says you're evil, good luck convincing their viewers of anything different.

    Not to mention all the companies you'll anger. Invent a new eco-friendly green car that only costs $5,000 and never needs to be fueled up, and Ford, Chevy, all those businesses, along with their distributors and blue-collar mechanics, will act against you. And they'll point to that mechanic and talk about how you're destroying honest, hard-working American jobs.

    This is why I wouldn't care about the PR. I'd do what I thought was right and not worry much about people's reactions, because you're going to be too scary with those powers and those abilities for the world to react any other way. Spin the PR one way to satisfy one group and you'll just be pissing off another.
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  7. #97
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I still think you'd run into more aggression than you're expecting. If you just do standard Superman stuff and put out fires and pull cats from trees, people will get angry that you're not fixing the problems *they* think you should solve. Why are you wasting your time instead of taking down Assad in Syria? Or stopping illegal immigrants from entering the US? Or burning down abortion clinics (or building new ones)? People will want (and demand) you act according to their personal politics and when you don't, or you don't do it the way they want, they're not going to care that you saved people from an earthquake in Mexico.

    Plus the people who are against you will spread lies, and some people will believe it no matter what your own PR office spins. I mean, if Fox News says you're evil, good luck convincing their viewers of anything different.

    Not to mention all the companies you'll anger. Invent a new eco-friendly green car that only costs $5,000 and never needs to be fueled up, and Ford, Chevy, all those businesses, along with their distributors and blue-collar mechanics, will act against you. And they'll point to that mechanic and talk about how you're destroying honest, hard-working American jobs.

    This is why I wouldn't care about the PR. I'd do what I thought was right and not worry much about people's reactions, because you're going to be too scary with those powers and those abilities for the world to react any other way. Spin the PR one way to satisfy one group and you'll just be pissing off another.

    Yeah, possibly. I do think that a fair share can be watered down just from all the good works, and that it would translate to the same (at first) when the businesses start. Sure, some are too far gone, but if you set your rules out for people, more will get it than won't (though I am the eternal optimist, lol). And the rest, at some point, you just can't worry about. I think PR is important, but the lack of it wouldn't stop me, if that makes any sense. As long as what you're doing is directly making lives better and you aren't afraid to push for it, people tend to respect that even if they don't always agree. Though, it's hard to know for sure since we've never seen this exact instance before. Though, if I really want to shut up Fox News, I'll just advertise on their network - we already know that'd mostly take care of that. lol

    Ford/Chevy and those likely will be ticked, but I don't see as much push from distributors and mechanics because I'll be using the overhead I leave in to hire them. There'll be some, but that's why I wanted to address that in the profit margin. That way, we get the effect in reverse - "it should be bad, but now my new job is better than ever" etc.

    I agree on the PR spin stuff (one side vs other) - that's why I think a focus on the masses (generally, anyway) and away from the larger corps/etc is the most solid direction in the long run. I might be overestimating it, but all that power and influence is a powerful cocktail that's alluring to those who want to try and ride coattails - especially if/when they see it's the side that's winning, and I'd use the last decade of US politics as decent evidence of that (even if that's a smaller scale than what we're talking about here).

    At the end of the day, though.. if it needs to be done, it needs to be done. I'm totally with you there.
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  8. #98
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Y’all crazy if you think the general public wouldn’t be absolutely terrified of a super-man tier person in real life. The media would tear you apart the second they caught wind of you regardless of the circumstances. You could cure every thing and it wouldn’t mean a god damn thing PR wise.

  9. #99
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Yeah, possibly. I do think that a fair share can be watered down just from all the good works, and that it would translate to the same (at first) when the businesses start. Sure, some are too far gone, but if you set your rules out for people, more will get it than won't (though I am the eternal optimist, lol). And the rest, at some point, you just can't worry about. I think PR is important, but the lack of it wouldn't stop me, if that makes any sense. As long as what you're doing is directly making lives better and you aren't afraid to push for it, people tend to respect that even if they don't always agree. Though, it's hard to know for sure since we've never seen this exact instance before. Though, if I really want to shut up Fox News, I'll just advertise on their network - we already know that'd mostly take care of that. lol

    At the end of the day, though.. if it needs to be done, it needs to be done. I'm totally with you there.
    I'd like to think you're right, and at least some people would get behind you...and I think your plan mitigates the risks as well as anything is likely to.....but I tend to agree with Arsenal on this one; a real person with Clark's power? The world isn't ready for that. For sure, there'd be some people who'd side with you but I suspect they'd be far and few between. And unless you made crazy stupid amounts of money (trillions) you'd never be able to out-match all the PR aimed against you.

    Still, I'd support your ideas and the way you'd go about this. I think it's the best plan we've seen in the thread....but I dont think people are cool enough to get behind an individual with that much power, no matter what he or she did.
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  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    If I were as powerful as Superman, I would shunt Trump, much of the current Republican Party, the Koch brothers, the people in charge of Monsanto, Kim Jung Un, Putin, the Chinese president who's name I forgot how to spell, and a few select dictators and authoritarian rulers the world over into the Phantom Zone very discreetly and call it a day. Oh, and then squash some coal into diamonds and live a middle class lifestyle. That'd be about it.
    And thatís why Danyaeres had to die...and why Red Son is so powerful as a story. What makes you think you know better than me?

  11. #101
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    Truth be told, I would do pretty much the same thing Superman does though I probably would be a bit more assertive on some subjects, but to overall try to keep a hands off approach.
    An important difference would be that I would distance my super powered persona from any specific nation, particularly the big players like the USA, China or Russia. Note that I am not US American, I am not from the Americas or even the English speaking world.
    Other than saving lives and assisting with science to improve the human condition, I would use my super speed to write books and other stuff under my super powered persona, but also under varies pseudonyms to entertain and teach people. (Kind of like Clark Kent does... who would have thought^^)
    One of the practical things I would try to do would be to create a (series) of foundation(s) to use money I could have generated through some of my deeds to help with problems where even Superman's raw power would be insufficient or not a solution in the long run. (It's the Feeding a man for a day/feeding a man for a lifetime thing ) This is in part so that the Good I would do could survive my retirement, be it voluntary or forceful (like death).
    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    Did anybody ever tell you that your writing style really matches your location?

  12. #102
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Frozen Reptile View Post
    And that’s why Danyaeres had to die...
    ...who's Danyaeres?

    and why Red Son is so powerful as a story. What makes you think you know better than me?
    I don't even know you.

  13. #103
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    ...who's Danyaeres?
    A character from Game of Thrones.
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  14. #104
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Frozen Reptile View Post
    And thatís why Danyaeres had to die...and why Red Son is so powerful as a story. What makes you think you know better than me?
    Meh, sometimes being a person of action is more important than philosophizing. People are hurting, and need help.

    Go be their champion.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Okay, so the saying "no good deed goes unpunished" is all about the negative consequences of a good action.

    So what's the unintended bad consequence when the good deed is on a Superman's level?
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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