Does the Kingpin count as a major Spider-Man villain?

[Cmbmool]

He originated in Spider-man as villain and he stays a thorn as a Spider-man villain. That's how I see it. His dislike for Daredevil is more like another enjoyment of his and one he can target better as the other major heroes are harder to target.

However, I would love to see him try to tackle Iron man a bit in a business sense.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Peter Parker, the Spectacular-Spider-Man #89-100, in which he was the secret mastermind behind Black Cat's bad luck powers.

That's more a Black Cat story than a Spider-Man/Kingpin story. And I don't even know if it qualifies as a definitive story, since it's very clearly Mantlo's attempt to clear up a poorly conceived gimmick that Wolfman foisted on her and which didn't make sense anymore.

[WebSlingWonder]

That's more a Black Cat story than a Spider-Man/Kingpin story. And I don't even know if it qualifies as a definitive story, since it's very clearly Mantlo's attempt to clear up a poorly conceived gimmick that Wolfman foisted on her and which didn't make sense anymore.

Ohhh no: don't start with that era of Spectacular, because that was so good and very clearly was both a Spider-Man story and a Black Cat story (and cemented Kingpin as a Spidey villain)

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The problem with Kingpin in Spider-Man stories is that he's usually reduced to an ordinary Bond villain doing Bond villain schemes as in most of the Lee-Romita era or involved in something as silly as weird mystical stuff like owning a device that can give bad luck powers or something like that. He's usually the guy who's a minor fence figure for bigger villains like Ock in the Owl/Octopus War. Even in USM, Bendis had Kingpin shown as a physical threat (which again yeah not buying it once) and then has him presented as this untouchable force of corporate power and mob control. But because it's a Spider-Man story, Peter manages to bust him and get him sent out the first arc and Kingpin never worked as well as he did in later stories following that and Bendis had to get people to buy that Kingpin-dodges-jail-even-if-he-killed-someone-on-camera.

The one time Kingpin became in Spider-Man like the Kingpin in Daredevil was in Back in Black where he sent an assassin to kill Peter's families and they shoot Aunt May. And that story ended with Peter humiliating and beating that fat lub of tard to shreds. It also pretty much killed Kingpin as a physical threat to Spider-Man and since then no one's tried to pull that off in 616 again.

Kingpin in Spider-Man stories never becomes the character he is in Daredevil. My feeling is that Spider-Man writers should use Hammerhead and Tombstone because a) They work as mob threats specifically rooted in Spider-Man's corner, b) They have superpowers which means they are believable physical threats at least to a point, c) They, Tombstone especially, have a lot of underused potential. Tombstone is in my personal view a more interesting character than Kingpin and he's got a lot of depth to him. He's connected to Robbie Robertson he's Janice's Dad, and he's just generally speaking quite cool. His boss fight with Peter in Spider-Man PS4 was just fun. I keep playing and replaying that just to hear the dialogue.

[ngroove]

Ohhh no: don't start with that era of Spectacular, because that was so good and very clearly was both a Spider-Man story and a Black Cat story (and cemented Kingpin as a Spidey villain)

I still fondly remember, during the climactic battle in the end, Kingpin grew so riled up, he tore an entire spiral staircase, leaving Spidey to joke if he is a mutant.

[KROENEN]

Kingpin in Spider-Man stories never becomes the character he is in Daredevil. My feeling is that Spider-Man writers should use Hammerhead and Tombstone because a) They work as mob threats specifically rooted in Spider-Man's corner, b) They have superpowers which means they are believable physical threats at least to a point, c) They, Tombstone especially, have a lot of underused potential. Tombstone is in my personal view a more interesting character than Kingpin and he's got a lot of depth to him. He's connected to Robbie Robertson he's Janice's Dad, and he's just generally speaking quite cool. His boss fight with Peter in Spider-Man PS4 was just fun. I keep playing and replaying that just to hear the dialogue.

I agree, I always secretly wanted an arc where Tombstone becomes the main kingpin of NY, or at least a more legitimate threat. I think visually he looks spooky and he's a great stand in for the generic mafioso character, even though I liked him better as a biker in the PS4 story.

[Mistah K88]

I agree, I always secretly wanted an arc where Tombstone becomes the main kingpin of NY, or at least a more legitimate threat. I think visually he looks spooky and he's a great stand in for the generic mafioso character, even though I liked him better as a biker in the PS4 story.

They made him the top Mob boss stand in in the Spectacular animated series over other Mafioso types that Spidey has had over the years. I suppose it mainly has to do with his presence, towering demeanor, and vague powerset (they sure made sure to show him getting knifed in the back by Green Goblin's Razor Bats and feeling nothing but annoyance) that could put him in that position and still be a genuine physical threat to Spidey over other mobsters. Though I'm unsure how to put him in that position with his comic history as it is now.

As for the topic at hand, I say yes, Kingpin can be considered a major Spidey rogue, as they never want to forget where he came from. If he is to tango with Spider-Man again, he may have to have his gadgets like his more classic appearances.

[KROENEN]

They made him the top Mob boss stand in in the Spectacular animated series over other Mafioso types that Spidey has had over the years. I suppose it mainly has to do with his presence, towering demeanor, and vague powerset (they sure made sure to show him getting knifed in the back by Green Goblin's Razor Bats and feeling nothing but annoyance) that could put him in that position and still be a genuine physical threat to Spidey over other mobsters. Though I'm unsure how to put him in that position with his comic history as it is now.

Very cool, I will have to check that out. Thanks!

I really liked Kingpin as the main bad guy in Into the Spiderverse, but I also think he works much better as a DD villain. I actually have to be reminded he started out in ASM.

[TheRay]

I think Kingpin is a major Spider-Man rogue. In fact, to me he is a Spider-Man villain who was loaned to Daredevil writers for a while.

[Celgress]

OP Question - IMO, Kingdom does count as a major Spidey villain even if Spidey has to "share" him with several other heroes such as Daredevil.

[regg215]

While he originated as a Spidey villain and it would never be wrong to call him that, the most iconic Kingpin stories are normally his daredevil appearances. If someone asked me to list Spidey's greatest villains I would probably be about 20+ slots down the list before I got to Kingpin. Where as with DD he is by far #1. It's kinda like if Black Mask got lent out by DC to Green Arrow and there ended up being 20-30 years of amazing stories and rivalry between Green Arrow and Black Mask, while sure it would always be correct to call Black Mask a batman villain, he is a minor one compared to Joker, ra's, two face, bane etc, where as he would be the top villain for Green Arrow. If your most iconic stuff is facing against another hero it's hard to call you a major villain to someone else.

[Snoop Dogg]

If someone asked me to list Spidey's greatest villains I would probably be about 20+ slots down the list before I got to Kingpin.

drop the list

[PCN24454]

OP Question - IMO, Kingdom does count as a major Spidey villain even if Spidey has to "share" him with several other heroes such as Daredevil.

I think the conversation should’ve ended right here.

[Celgress]

I think the conversation should’ve ended right here.

Okay, go ahead and discuss feel free. I've posted my opinion, concise as it is.

[regg215]

drop the list

If I had to list it out I would say this but that doesn't necessarily mean I think they are a bigger threat to Spidey than Fisk is, I just associate them with spiderman before I would fisk.

1. Green Goblin
2. Doc Ock
3. Mysterio
4. Kraven
5. Lizard
6. Electro
7. Venom
8. Carnage
9. Vulture
10. Hobgoblin
11. Sandman
12. Rhino
13. Jackal
14. Scorpion
15. Morlun
16. Chameleon
17. Shocker
18 Morbius
19. Mr. Negative (although only because of the PS4 game he would not be this high before that game)
20. Tombstone ( I associate him more with Spiderman than I do fisk but fisk could easily go here)