Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
Let me say that in this case in this thread, this is just my subjective views. I am just saying what I believe to be the common effective qualities for villains in superhero comics in general, and Spider-Man in particular. I make my observations based on some external notes but my judgment is my own.

The general consensus, stated or unstated, is that there isn't one Kingpin story with Spider-Man that's as good as the stuff in Daredevil. I love Back in Black and it's awesome to see Spider-Man cut loose even if its in tragic and dark circumstances (of his own doing, albeit being coerced by Tony more than his own beliefs) but it's a great Peter Parker/Spider-Man story and not a Kingpin one. It's extremely hard to argue against the viewpoint that Kingpin is all the more dynamic and interesting a character with Daredevil as a foil than he is with Spider-Man. The best version of the character is with Daredevil. He's a much more reduced figure in Spider-Man. Maybe it's because for Daredevil he often isn't just a villain or major villain but the only villain, since Bullseye and Electra work for him, and Kingpin is tied to all his other villains in some way. So that elevation and connection gives him a scale there that he can't have in Spider-Man.

You want my opinion. I don't like Kingpin in Spider-Man stories but I like him in Daredevil stories. The rivalry between Matt and Kingpin is Doom/Richards level good. Whereas it never gets there with Peter because it's impersonal. And the minute it gets personal as in Back in Black, the pretense that this could mean anything dies, and Fisk folds like a fish. Kingpin is a great villain but he works best only with one guy, Daredevil. For the same reasons, I don't think Kingpin is a good Punisher villain. With the Punisher, you have to contrive all sorts of reasons why Castle doesn't shoot this guy or find some rocket launcher to unload onto him, so you have them invent this "someone worse will come" which doesn't make sense.



You have that with Norman Osborn. The Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy and Peter will never be able to avenge it. One because he has a Healing Factor, two because he's rich and powerful, three he's cunning and dangerous. And Four, he's physically super strong. And he knows Peter's identity. I will say that Daredevil's Fisk is a more interestingly written villain than Green Goblin is as a character but Goblin works better as a Spider-Man villain.



Considering the jobbing and outright silliness they do in the movies to sell the Tony Stark Intern story, I expect Holland's Peter to fold against the Bodega Bandit
Jobbing? Last I checked Peter not only defeated his villains but also beat the Winter Soldier. If anything, Tony's lost more fights than Peter.