What did you guys think of Peter B. Parker (Jake Johnson) from ITSV?

[gregpersons]

Now that "Into The Spider-Verse" is on digital and watching the movie multiple times now, I am continually impressed by the smart choices from the creative team -- certainly in regard to fixing Miles Morales' origin (and crucially including the trait that Miles is an artist, differentiating him from Peter the scientist) -- but also with how perfectly the movie portrays an older Peter Parker.

Peter B. Parker is basically the 616 version minus Brand New Day, with the addition that this Peter actually does get older and therefore his character has to actually evolve.

I just think Peter B. Parker is one of the absolute best portrayals of the character. For me, it's as "definitive" of a take as any I've seen. Think about how perfectly "Parker luck" it is for the original Spider-Man to not even be the 'coolest' Spidey in a Spider-Verse team-up; getting teased not by Flash Thompson but by the younger 'kid arachnids' -- even alternate universe Aunt May comments on his sweatpants / weight.

How much of a "loser" Peter Parker is -- it's something that I think a lot of portrayals struggle to get right, but Spider-Verse nails it. He's got a Jewish sensibility of being self-effacing and almost invites mockery, but at the same time, his wit is maybe the sharpest of anyone.

Choices / Changes That I Loved In Into The Spider-Verse

--Miles is an artist
--Jeff is a police officer, not a SHIELD spy
--Neither of Miles' parents die
--Uncle Aaron is sympathetic; his reveal as Prowler is surprising and heartbreaking (watching it with non-comic readers, they always gasp when the twist comes)
--Miles designs his own costume, fitting for his artistic character

--Peter & MJ split up like normal people would, with a separation or divorce, not because of a tragic Mephisto deal - but Peter's regret for this also returns the 'will they or won't they' dynamic.

--Peter B. is a wise ass! He gets made fun of (hobo, the fat jokes, etc) but he's able to return jabs back. The movie version of Doc Ock even comments "Oh, you're a chatty one."

--Even though it wasn't super explicit and the filmmakers kind of hedged it, I appreciated that Peter B. Parker is portrayed as Jewish (we see the stomping the glass in his origin montage of the wedding). Stan Lee and Brian Bendis are arguably the two main architects of Peter Parker and their writing of him pretty clearly comes from a Jewish POV. (On a similar thought, I also appreciated that Tom Holland's version actually has a Queens accent).

Some articles for further reading while I was searching around for people talking about Peter B. Parker...
https://www.hypable.com/peter-b-park...lennials-need/
https://www.popbuzz.com/tv-film/news...r-verse-memes/


Anyway, what do you think? How does Jake Johnson's take on Peter square with "your" headcanon?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Now that "Into The Spider-Verse" is on digital and watching the movie multiple times now, I am continually impressed by the smart choices from the creative team -- certainly in regard to fixing Miles Morales' origin (and crucially including the trait that Miles is an artist, differentiating him from Peter the scientist)

Miles is shown as a science geek in the movie. He knows about Einstein and got all the right answers in the test. And the original Peter also had artistic traits since he created and designed the costume himself and unlike more recent versions didn't have it handed down to him by billionaire patrons.

Peter B. Parker is basically the 616 version minus Brand New Day, with the addition that this Peter actually does get older and therefore his character has to actually evolve.

Pre-OMD Peter is nothing like Peter B. Parker. He was mature, old, good with kids (a high school teacher in fact), he didn't make stupid financial investments.

Peter B. Parker is a man child, a moron who follows bad financial strategy from news (basically a shorthand for "a fool and his money soon to be parted"), and his overall standoffishness is closer to the Lee-Ditko Spider-Man in the first 10 issues or so. And his inability to move on past Aunt May and terminal dependence on her is more a comment on how Marvel keeps Peter shackled to May to infantilize him than anything.

I just think Peter B. Parker is one of the absolute best portrayals of the character. For me, it's as "definitive" of a take as any I've seen.

To each their own, for me, he's primarily a parody of the most unattractive and unappealing traits of Spider-Man. The point is in the movie he has more in common with the villains than the fellow Spiders. Like Kingpin he drove his wife away, and spends most of the movie pining after an alternate version of MJ to apologize to. Aunt May of the Ultimate universe makes fun of him when she sees him (That "Sweatpants" joke) and doesn't give him the time of day after that. Miles ultimately proves to be the more mature and capable one, telling him to fix his life.

--Peter & MJ split up like normal people would, with a separation or divorce, not because of a tragic Mephisto deal - but Peter's regret for this also returns the 'will they or won't they' dynamic.

Peter B. Parker chose to divorce his wife over her objections. He was a terrible husband to her as he says ("I wasn't there for you when you needed me the most. I didn't even try."). This isn't comparable because the Peter Parker right before Pre-OMD was a good husband to her, their marriage was happy (see To Have and to Hold). He comes out morally compromised and pathetic. There are many reasons people objected to the Mephisto deal. Many many of them. Among the principle ones was that readers at the time simply didn't think it was remotely believable that the Peter and MJ of that era would ever part ways of their own volition.

--Even though it wasn't super explicit and the filmmakers kind of hedged it, I appreciated that Peter B. Parker is portrayed as Jewish (we see the stomping the glass in his origin montage of the wedding). Stan Lee and Brian Bendis are arguably the two main architects of Peter Parker and their writing of him pretty clearly comes from a Jewish POV. (On a similar thought, I also appreciated that Tom Holland's version actually has a Queens accent).

Peter B. being Jewish was a joke added by one of the co-directors (Rodney Rothman). It's not intended as canon though yeah I like it and it's a nice touch. Peter Parker in the comics is Irish-American, and he and Mary Jane had a secular wedding at City Hall, a non-denominational one, which makes sense for both brand purposes (Spider-Man of all faiths), and a character one (neither Peter or MJ are ever shown to be consistently religious, MJ less so than Peter). Among Spider-Man's creators, Stan Lee from everything I've read was a secular Jew (i.e. non-practicing and he made the choice in the newspaper strip, seconded by Shooter, to make Peter's wedding non-denominational) and I don't think he ever intended Peter to be Jewish.

Bendis is more self-consciously Jewish but he wrote Ultimate Peter Parker, and Bendis said repeatedly that he never saw Peter as a loser. Far from it.

Anyway, what do you think? How does Jake Johnson's take on Peter square with "your" headcanon?

When I think of Peter, i.e. the Peter of "The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man", the Peter of "To Have and to Hold", the Peter of JMS' entire high school era, the Peter of Lee-Romita-Conway-Defalco, the Peter of JMD...Peter B. Parker is not anywhere close to that. This guy starts out disliking children. And that to me is a major black mark and red flag.

To me he's a parody and satire. To some extent, and others have argued this, Peter B. is an extreme take on the Post-OMD Slott version of Peter, showing him as a buffoon who is unworthy to be the protagonist, and that he should go on his arms and knees and apologize to his old lady (even if she has every good reason to turn him down after all the crap he did on her). I certainly do not consider Peter B. Parker any more definitive than any other screen portrayal of Peter. I certainly don't think Pete B. Parker is more definitive than the Blonde one who dies at the start.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I dont post much anymore but when did appreciation threads change to allow more negativity?

One can still appreciate a movie and a character for what he is, and for the extinsic factors (Jake Johnson's vocal performance, his dialogue and so on), and disagree with a fellow fan about whether that take is definitive. It's the difference between seeing Rorschach in Watchmen as a great, complex, ambiguous figure and those who come away thinking he's a badass cool hero and that his methods and attitudes are correct and validated. Both people will agree with the former (great complex ambiguous figure) but there are people who agree with that who disagree with the second.

I think Peter B. Parker is a pretty complex, fully realized character, and he is "a" Peter Parker. Jake Johnson's character is hilarious and Miles calling him "Janky, Broke, Old Super-Hero" is hilarious as is the dynamic between them at the start. Peter B. Parker has moments where he's capable and effective (seeing an Alphanumeric password in Liv Octopus' computer from one glance at her quick fingers) while also being a creep (buying time for Miles by trying to "seduce" Olivia like he's some smooth casanova). He's not entirely a good person, like his initial attitude to Miles when he tells him he's in danger and Kingpin might come after his family, "Who cares about that?".

[Revolutionary_Jack]

...

So what did you like about the movie and the character then? Real talk. I won't even respond. If according to you I have gone off-topic, let me lead it back. Just say what you appreciate about Peter B.

Let me do it myself.

I adore Jake Johnson's vocal performance. I love that line delivery: "But there’s always a little bit of time before everybody dies, and that’s when I do my best work." I can listen to it all day.

To me the essential quality he has as Peter Parker is that he's willing to stand back. He's not asserting himself as the real Spider-Man or anything, he tries to share, is encouraging, and he's willing to learn. And I love the "leap of faith" line when he tells Miles.

So what did you like about it?

[Bor]

So what did you like about the movie and the character then? Real talk. I won't even respond. If according to you I have gone off-topic, let me lead it back. Just say what you appreciate about Peter B.

Let me do it myself.

I adore Jake Johnson's vocal performance. I love that line delivery: "But there’s always a little bit of time before everybody dies, and that’s when I do my best work." I can listen to it all day.

To me the essential quality he has as Peter Parker is that he's willing to stand back. He's not asserting himself as the real Spider-Man or anything, he tries to share, is encouraging, and he's willing to learn. And I love the "leap of faith" line when he tells Miles.

So what did you like about it?

What I liked most about this version was his portrayal as a classic version, in terms of experiences, mixed with something I just cant put my finger on. I get some of the same vibe I got from JMS`s version, especially during his seperation from MJ. That moment when he missed her flight because he wasnt in his body at the time. Its hard for me to be more precise. Its not that I dont like the MCU version but this is a lot more to my liking.

[PCN24454]

I have to say. A lot of people have nostalgia for pre-OMD Spider-Man. While he wasn’t to the level of janky that ITSV 616 was, he was very far from perfect.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I have to say. A lot of people have nostalgia for pre-OMD Spider-Man. While he wasn’t to the level of janky that ITSV 616 was, he was very far from perfect.

The opposite of janky isn't perfection or flawless. There are middle grounds. The idea of Peter as a perpetual loser is something that some writers project more than others but not all of them and not consistently. Paul Jenkins never saw Peter that way, nor did JMS, or others, any more than say the supposedly "misanthropic" early version of Peter in the Ditko era is of that entire run and period. Peter's an intricate character. There are shades to him and layers to him. And Spider-Verse represents all of that. Lee-Ditko's Peter was most certainly not a loser. The entire Master Planner arc which is the best Spider-Man story is all about that. Brian Michael Bendis when discussing Ultimate Spider-Man pointed out that how Peter's teenage and college days were so much better and enviable compared to his and many others. He admitted that early bullying at an age can damage you but Peter got over that quickly, and that explained why Ultimate Peter becomes a pretty competent, capable, mellow guy, even a "cool dude" who Johnny Storm, Iceman and others look up to and see as the "616 Cap" of their generation. That informs Blonde Peter.

Peter disliking children or refusing to have kids, as Peter B. Parker is shown to be at the start, is just entirely out of character of 616 Peter Pre-OMD. Go right to his romance days with Black Cat and he was picturing little Spideys and little Black Cats running around the kitchen. He and MJ were ecstatic to have a baby during the early Clone Saga. Anyone who has read The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man knows how much Peter cares for and relates to kids. And the entire time he taught high school in JMS is all about him being a great teacher which he cares so much about that he never skimps work, never misses, and as Captain America notes approvingly in New Avengers #1, Peter still came the next day even if he didn't have as much sleep fighting the Raft. I mean until his identity got exposed, high school teaching was a job that Peter was good at, liked, and was able to keep.

ITSV's Peter B. reminds me of Old Luke from The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson admitted that he based Old Luke on the Luke of Empire Strikes Back in the commentary and not the one from Return of the Jedi. That's one of the reasons why that highly interesting but flawed movie provoked the responses it did. Some fans saw it as the definitive uber-version of Luke and so on, while others thought it was out of character and a regression and Johnson himself said he regressed Luke to the part in his life he liked. So to me people who see Peter B. as a "Definitive" Spider-Man are similarly being selective. It's the definitive version of one idea or interpretation of Spider-Man perhaps.

[David Walton]

I really enjoyed Peter B. Parker's characterization in ITSV.

[gregpersons]

So what did you like about the movie and the character then? Real talk. I won't even respond. If according to you I have gone off-topic, let me lead it back. Just say what you appreciate about Peter B.

Let me do it myself.

I adore Jake Johnson's vocal performance. I love that line delivery: "But there’s always a little bit of time before everybody dies, and that’s when I do my best work." I can listen to it all day.

To me the essential quality he has as Peter Parker is that he's willing to stand back. He's not asserting himself as the real Spider-Man or anything, he tries to share, is encouraging, and he's willing to learn. And I love the "leap of faith" line when he tells Miles.

So what did you like about it?

All great moments and great qualities. I also love the little parlor tricks he uses throughout — the "watch the hands, not the mouth" bit, or how casually/easily he takes the goober from Miles' mouth, etc.

To one of your earlier points, I don't think Peter B. Parker "hates" kids by any stretch... I mean, it's not like he sold his unborn daughter to the devil!

What we're seeing with Peter B. Parker is an acceptance of responsibility of adulthood, ie, marriage & children, in a way that the perpetually-bachelor-comics-616 Peter can't because of mostly meta-textual brand reasons.

It's a clever trick from the filmmakers but I don't think Peter B. Parker is the parody, it's actually the opposite -- the blond Chris Pine Spider-Man is the parody. Here's why -- Spider-Man isn't supposed to be perfect. Chris Pine is the "brand" version of Spider-Man who lives in statis -- always 25, living his best life, etc.

The point of Peter B. Parker is a reminder that this character works best when the flaws are obvious, but relatable -- to the point where you might even question, is this guy even a hero? -- but, like those parlor tricks, it's sort of a diversion from his deeper self. Because Peter is not doing this for glory or fame, he doesn't need to be asserting himself in every moment -- he can be more laid back, roll with the punches, and step in when the moment counts.

Chris Pine is the Spider-Man we think we'd want, but Peter B. Parker is the Spider-Man we deserve and need.

[gregpersons]

I really enjoyed Peter B. Parker's characterization in ITSV.

What were some of your favorite moments, or lines?

Here's a random one from me: I love that he insists on taking the bus -- first to Doc Ock's lab, but then also to Kingpin's function at the end. It's so funny, and it seems "janky" but is actually very "friendly neighborhood" and very New York. It's also just a great sight gag and thinking about it makes me laugh.

Also, when he tells Miles that "Here's the good news: we don't need the monitor." So funny.

[gregpersons]

Miles is shown as a science geek in the movie. He knows about Einstein and got all the right answers in the test. And the original Peter also had artistic traits since he created and designed the costume himself and unlike more recent versions didn't have it handed down to him by billionaire patrons.

That's true (pedantic but true) - my point is that one of the major issues with Miles is "How is he different from Peter Parker aside from his ethnicity?" Until the Spider-Verse movie, I don't think the comics have ever had a very strong answer to that, despite their good intentions.

Both Miles & Peter can be both artistic & scientific (dudes contain multitudes), but when we're looking to add further definition to the characters, emphasizing that Miles is an artist is a very strong choice. It helps both characters. If they were both in school at the same time, Miles might be an art major and Peter would be a chemistry major.

So, this simple but powerful choice to emphasize Miles' artistic ambitions is a good way to differentiate him from Peter when they are largely similar in most regards, as you pointed out.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Chris Pine is the "brand" version of Spider-Man who lives in statis -- always 25, living his best life, etc.

The brand version of Spider-Man is Tom Holland. Teenage, mascot, looks up to the Avengers and so on. As far as 616 goes, Chris Pine's Peter is very off-brand since Aunt May knows his identity and is his partner (the last time that happened was in JMS' run) and he's married to Mary Jane (ditto).

I don't think any of the Spiders are really brand versions. Sony because they want to keep away from Marvel-Disney and hold on to Spider-Man for dear life have every incentive to go off-brand, especially since they gave Disney the mascot version already.

It's way more heroic that Blonde Peter having all that success and stuff in his life sacrifices himself for the sake of some nobody kid he just met. That is absolutely a Peter Parker thing to do. And it's more heroic than Ultimate Spider-Man where Ultimate Peter "dies" for his family and friends rather than some random kid.

Chris Pine is the Spider-Man we think we'd want, but Peter B. Parker is the Spider-Man we deserve and need.

That goes against the message of the film. "Anyone can wear the mask", which means there's not one Spider-Man. And in any case Peter B. doesn't really do much in terms of the climax of the film (the collider, Kingpin). He screws up the infiltration for a chance to apologize to Blonde Peter's wife (and in a manner that's not really all that far from Kingpin trying to use the collider to find other versions of Vanessa). Peter B. comes in, befriends Miles in a fashion, and then gets sent back to do something better with his life.

So, this simple but powerful choice to emphasize Miles' artistic ambitions is a good way to differentiate him from Peter when they are largely similar in most regards, as you pointed out.

Bendis said that Miles is different from Peter because he had a happy childhood and parents around him, and was more social in school and not as picked on and bullied as Peter was. Miles comes from a more positive place into his teenage years whatever else that happens to him there in comics and other adaptations.

Peter you know never really got to enjoy his youth.

[FeliciaSpidey]

Peter B. Parker is my favorite character in ITSV.
To him, being a hero was such a natural thing. Even sacrifice himself, is also a matter of course. He's never shown anyone any compassion, he just knows it's the right thing to do and he should do it. He's a mature hero who saves by instinct and takes the right thing for granted.
In my view, some of the negative comments about him is ridiculous.

[blackspidey2099]

I think Chris Pine's Peter Parker was a more accurate adaptation (which I preferred more than Peter B.) but Peter B. is a great character in his own right.

[Mister Mets]

I changed the title since the first post is about discussion rather than appreciation, and a lot of the responses will touch on other aspects of the film.

A handful of posts have been deleted since it's not about the topic.