Is anyone else surprised...

[Deniz Camp]

That the Avengers books have fallen down the charts?

Quality does not equal popularity, but the same hype machine seems to be going that was going for Bendis' run. General knowledge of the Avengers has never been higher. And, in my opinion, the quality of the stories - while not without their problems - is higher than it ever was under Bendis.

And yet Avengers charted at number 25 in June, just below Deadpool. New Avengers at 44 and 45, just barely above something like Amazing X Men or Moon Knight.

I'm just a little bit surprised, is all.

[weezer17]

I'm a little curious about this, too. I've liked what Hickman's been doing in general, albeit very very slowly, and I don't really understand the lukewarm reception it's been receiving. I will say that what I admire the most about his run thus far is that it seems clear he wants to break new ground and tell his OWN stories, rather than piggy-back off of Bendis. The introduction of the newuniversal elements has been really cool to me.

That said, I'm not sure how I feel about New Avengers. It's obviously the superior title, but Hickman seems to be digging quite a large hole that looks like a nasty retcon waiting to happen. And I don't know how I feel about characters like Beast and Reed Richards just blowing up entire planets without even blinking.

I liked what Captain America said to Reed in issue #3:

You will lose yourself in this, Reed. You'll wake up one day and have no idea who is looking back at you in the mirror.

I feel like all of their actions are uncharacteristic.

But that's just my opinion!

[Serotonin]

It's Hickman. Some of his stuff is just nonsensical and completely out there and over-the-top. It's just like Grant Morrison, no one will admit that sometimes they just don't understand what the hell the writer is doing or saying, but no one will admit it and others think it's cool to just say "yeah, of course I "get it", you dont?!?!"

I'll be the first to tell you, some of the %$#* Hickman writes just makes absolutely no sense to me. And I think that chases away readers. Bendis, not to be insulting, is a much more basic, less "large ideas", type of writer and that kind of writing tends to be easier for readers to get into. You can miss a storyline with Bendis Avengers and come back and not feel completely lost. Whereas Hickman, New Avengers and Avengers have been a slow burning, long-term huge story. If you aren't committed for the long run you'll be very lost when you jump back in. Well...not so much with New Avengers...lol. But, world builders and trees and all that crap, this original sin stuff, there's a few panels where I just roll my eyes and flip through it. Maybe I'm just an idiot. That's fine. I'm a pretty successful idiot if that's the case and I'll blame my American roots for 90% of my stupidity heh. But I just think Avengers sales are lower because Hickman has a certain style and that style will give you a headache at times.

[krazijoe]

I'm a little curious about this, too. I've liked what Hickman's been doing in general, albeit very very slowly, and I don't really understand the lukewarm reception it's been receiving. I will say that what I admire the most about his run thus far is that it seems clear he wants to break new ground and tell his OWN stories, rather than piggy-back off of Bendis. The introduction of the newuniversal elements has been really cool to me.

That said, I'm not sure how I feel about New Avengers. It's obviously the superior title, but Hickman seems to be digging quite a large hole that looks like a nasty retcon waiting to happen. And I don't know how I feel about characters like Beast and Reed Richards just blowing up entire planets without even blinking.

But that's just my opinion!

Probably because people don't want to read a story for 3 years. It's confusing enough to only read a chapter a month. I am of the mind to just get it over with.

[Rochedalaix]

I'm not surprised Avengers has been garbage ever since Bendis left and that is actually kind of lol...

[CSTowle]

Because many people want the bigger iconic characters to take the spotlight in their Avengers comic, like fans who complain about the lack of focus on Superman/Wonder Woman/Batman in some versions of the Justice League.

I like what Hickman's doing, but it's not for everyone. And it's not a traditional "Avengers" book. New Avengers is probably more what traditional Avengers fans would like, core group of powerful characters and a focused enemy/goal. Or Mighty Avengers, which has a more upbeat feel than New. Actually now that I think of it this is probably the strongest line-up of Avengers books in my lifetime. Won't last, sadly, but I'll be happy while it does.

[Geralt of Rivia]

Well there are as many opinions as there are people; but I think that the root of the situation is that attention spans these days are fleeting, combined with there are new comic launches on almost a monthly basis lead to where things stand currently.

I for one am enjoying the heck out of Hickman's run even if it has had a couple now so great issues here and there and I intent to ride it out in its enterity.

[dragonmp93]

I'm a little curious about this, too. I've liked what Hickman's been doing in general, albeit very very slowly, and I don't really understand the lukewarm reception it's been receiving. I will say that what I admire the most about his run thus far is that it seems clear he wants to break new ground and tell his OWN stories, rather than piggy-back off of Bendis. The introduction of the newuniversal elements has been really cool to me.

That said, I'm not sure how I feel about New Avengers. It's obviously the superior title, but Hickman seems to be digging quite a large hole that looks like a nasty retcon waiting to happen. And I don't know how I feel about characters like Beast and Reed Richards just blowing up entire planets without even blinking.

I liked what Captain America said to Reed in issue #3:



I feel like all of their actions are uncharacteristic.

But that's just my opinion!

I dont read niether of these books, so i have no idea of what has happened, but what do you mean by nasty retcon waiting to happen ?.

[megaharrison]

It's because the people like Bendis style simple avengers over hickmans grand epic.

[krazijoe]

It's because the people like Bendis style simple avengers over hickmans grand epic.

Grand Epics work in Trade format, not Monthly serials.

[Zero Hunter]

For me I just got bored with Hickman. His ideas were pretty solid but his characters were all just so wooden. It just got boring with month after month of plot set up with no real character moments mixed in.

The other reason they have fallen? It is the same old reason really. The flooded the market with so many Avengers books it fractured the fan base into small groups. Between Avengers, New Avengers, Secret Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Avengers World, Avengers Assemble, and things like Avengers Vs. X-Men and now Axis to me it is just Marvel has overloaded people on the property and people are staying away. It is the same thing they did with the X-Men when you had so many books the casual fans could not keep track of what was even going on anymore.

[DebkoX]

New Avengers has just gotten really good.

[protege]

For me I just got bored with Hickman. His ideas were pretty solid but his characters were all just so wooden. It just got boring with month after month of plot set up with no real character moments mixed in.

The other reason they have fallen? It is the same old reason really. The flooded the market with so many Avengers books it fractured the fan base into small groups. Between Avengers, New Avengers, Secret Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Avengers World, Avengers Assemble, and things like Avengers Vs. X-Men and now Axis to me it is just Marvel has overloaded people on the property and people are staying away. It is the same thing they did with the X-Men when you had so many books the casual fans could not keep track of what was even going on anymore.

No one seems to be mentioning Uncanny Avengers in all this...

[Joe Acro]

Probably because people don't want to read a story for 3 years. It's confusing enough to only read a chapter a month. I am of the mind to just get it over with.

I think people are willing to read a story for 3 years. Green Lantern for example jumped seamlessly from story to story starting with the rise of the Sinestro Corps all the way to Blackest Night, and all that took multiple years, with solid sales throughout.

I think the problem with the Avengers is that it's split between two titles that at first didn't seem directly connected, but have become so and I think that became a hassle. For example, in the pages of the Avengers, we were introduced to a new set of Super Adaptoids. However, they weren't intended to be antagonists for the Avengers but instead flew off and became the Mapmakers that had been seen in New Avengers. Considering the amount of panel time was devoted to the adaptoids within that arc, it makes the Avengers seem like background characters in their own title.

And then the other problem is that Hickman is really slowly building the conclusion to his incursion story. Spending months with leaps forward through time, losing team members as they go, seems pointless or at the very least needlessly drawn out. Similarly, spending issue upon issue of the Illuminati looking at other realities via The Bridge also seems needlessly drawn out and ultimately unproductive.

So, it's part that there's too much interconnectivity between two titles that didn't really start that way and part that not enough happens from issue to issue to make the story as compelling as it should be.

[Mark]

Too many Avenger books? How far have the titles fallen?