New Avengers #21 Review (w/spoilers)

[MindofShadow]

Honestly the more I read about spoilers:

T'challa's Black Panther's history, the more I feel bad for the character and wonder just what is the purpose of the Black Panthers if all they care about is the country of Wakanda ?

end of spoilers

Saving Wakanda meant saving the universe in this case.

Wakanda has always been about saving Wakanda first. The stayed in isolation... leave them alone they left you alone.

The purpose of the Black Panthers is to rule and protect Wakanda. Just like the ruler of any other nation.

It isn't like Wakanda was out conquering other countries...

[Mahes]

Honestly the more I read about spoilers:

T'challa's Black Panther's history, the more I feel bad for the character and wonder just what is the purpose of the Black Panthers if all they care about is the country of Wakanda ?

end of spoilers

The thing is you don't know the history of the Black Panthers. They're the leaders of Wakanda and charged with protecting it. So sense their duty is preserve Wakanda of course they would focused solely on that. That's what the prior Panthers are telling T'Challa. They're criticizing him for straying from that path and not viewing the situation like a true king, in their opinion, should.

So what else is new ? spoilers:

As that has always been within Namor's character

end of spoilers

Namor is more complicated than that. He can be both depending on what the situation is.

Not really, he's been heading down that path for a long time. Hickman has been playing with duality a lot. Two men; One is Death, One is Life. Two Hyperions. Etc. What we're going to see is Namor and T'challa played as opposites much like Tony and Cap.

Both has basically been stripped of everything but where T'challa is holding on to his humanity and as stated in Hickman's FF has a role to play as a savior, Namor seems to be headed down the path to damnation. This is a long time coming and has basically been foreshadowed since FF 607-608.

Yeah I'm with you on BP and Namor being opposites like Tony and Steve. BP = salvation and Namor = damnation is what Hickman seems to be playing at. I just see it as Namor making the hard choices that have to be made given what they face. There's no hesitation from him about what must be done to ensure their continued survival.


If anything, Hickman is making a good critique on the dangers of realism.

[MindofShadow]

So basically...


The "evil" Illuminati with Swan/Thanos/Namor and company are probably going ot go around blowing up Alternate earths saving the Illuminati from having to be in this quandry anymore.

What is goign to be the purpose of the Illuminati now? They obviously cannot pull the trigger and destroy a planet. What use are they? Protection from the Sideris Maris, Ivory Kings, Black Priest, ect?


I really wonder what happens to Dr. Strange now.

[KOSLOX]

Saving Wakanda meant saving the universe in this case.

Wakanda has always been about saving Wakanda first. The stayed in isolation... leave them alone they left you alone.

The purpose of the Black Panthers is to rule and protect Wakanda. Just like the ruler of any other nation.

It isn't like Wakanda was out conquering other countries...

Right. In the past that is what it has been. But Bast specifically told T'challa that Wakanda would need Salvation. That's a spiritual redemption, and it might mean a much different type of Black Panther. My guess is it will be one stripped of much of the percieved cynicism we've seen since the Priest relaunch.

[Double 0]

Not really, he's been heading down that path for a long time. Hickman has been playing with duality a lot. Two men; One is Death, One is Life. Two Hyperions. Etc. What we're going to see is Namor and T'challa played as opposites much like Tony and Cap.

Both has basically been stripped of everything but where T'challa is holding on to his humanity and as stated in Hickman's FF has a role to play as a savior, Namor seems to be headed down the path to damnation. This is a long time coming and has basically been foreshadowed since FF 607-608.

Pretty much. It feels so much more real when it comes to Namor and T'Challa rather than the Civil War rehash.

Also, is it just me, or does all the random character shifts (Steve getting old soon, Thor, Tony both earlier in the run and later, soon Reed will be out of the way, etc.) in Hickman's run remind you of Morrison's JLA?

[MindofShadow]

Right. In the past that is what it has been. But Bast specifically told T'challa that Wakanda would need Salvation. That's a spiritual redemption, and it might mean a much different type of Black Panther. My guess is it will be one stripped of much of the percieved cynicism we've seen since the Priest relaunch.

I was talking about the past ones.

Good catch on the Salvation thing though.

Do you think T'challa ends up back on the Throne at the end of this, leading a new and improved Wakanda?

[KOSLOX]

If anything, Hickman is making a good critique on the dangers of realism.

I agree with that.

In this book I don't think Namor is a straight up villain, but in the rest of the MU that is how he will come across. This book is grey vs. black where the rest of the MU is pretty black and white.

[Double 0]

So basically...


The "evil" Illuminati with Swan/Thanos/Namor and company are probably going ot go around blowing up Alternate earths saving the Illuminati from having to be in this quandry anymore.

What is goign to be the purpose of the Illuminati now? They obviously cannot pull the trigger and destroy a planet. What use are they? Protection from the Sideris Maris, Ivory Kings, Black Priest, ect?


I really wonder what happens to Dr. Strange now.

I assume fighting off the different threats that come along the way, while figuring out a way to stop Thanos' Cabal. Much like Steve and co.'s Avengers.

[KOSLOX]

I was talking about the past ones.

Good catch on the Salvation thing though.

Do you think T'challa ends up back on the Throne at the end of this, leading a new and improved Wakanda?

It would be awesome to see a full on Golden Age of Wakanda story, but unfortunately that can't really last in serialized fiction.

[MindofShadow]

So, the next few issues will likely be the Illuminati getting their ass beat by the Cabal no? It seems like Maximus is going to let them out...


Strange should have saved his power lol. They are going ot get their ass beat something fierce. They could barely handle Terrax alone and had problems getting Swan back in her cage.

Black Bolt really shouldn't be allowed in any more secret groups

[KOSLOX]

Also, I think I know why Thanos won't blow up Earth. He still thinks the gems are there, and technically at least one of them (Time) still sort of is.

[MindofShadow]

Also, I think I know why Thanos won't blow up Earth. He still thinks the gems are there, and technically at least one of them (Time) still sort of is.

Unless Namor or Swan tells him they are all gone

[Double 0]

So, the next few issues will likely be the Illuminati getting their ass beat by the Cabal no? It seems like Maximus is going to let them out...

Possibly. I do know that T'Challa and Namor are fighting next issue.

Strange should have saved his power lol. They are going ot get their ass beat something fierce. They could barely handle Terrax alone and had problems getting Swan back in her cage.

I think that's when Captain Britain is going to REALLY come in handy... Still, they are in for an ass kicking, especially since all those guys are in Necropolis.


Holy ****, all those guys are in Wakanda. Shuri better brace herself.

Black Bolt really shouldn't be allowed in any more secret groups

LMAO, true.

[Mahes]

So, the next few issues will likely be the Illuminati getting their ass beat by the Cabal no? It seems like Maximus is going to let them out...


Strange should have saved his power lol. They are going ot get their ass beat something fierce. They could barely handle Terrax alone and had problems getting Swan back in her cage.

Black Bolt really shouldn't be allowed in any more secret groups

The next 2 issues in August, when it doubleships, are from the fallout and the consequences of what happened in this issue. September is where we see the time jump.

Also, where was it revealed that Reed will get moved out of that way? Is that in FF?

[Double 0]

Reed is losing his intellect soon in FF, hence why he may not be involved in this Incursion situation for much longer.