New Avengers #21 Review (w/spoilers)

[ShaokhaN]

Not acting to kill the third parties is acting to not kill them. Therefore, this principle cannot be applied.

Read my final sentence again:
"Like I said as well, however, the legal aspect does not apply in our case because here there would be the matter of harming one to save 9,999. The principle of being responsible for not acting, however, clearly exists."

We're talking about not acting to save the 9,999 people, not about acting to kill one.

[Global Honored]

MOD BREAK

Hey guys,
It looks like some of you are talking in circles now. Obviously, as interesting as this moral conundrum may be, you aren't going to persuade the other party by repeating your stance ad nauseam.

If you wish to proceed the back 'n forth moral debate with another individual poster, and it has already gone on for several pages (hint hint), then it is time to take that to PM and let this thread get back to a more focused discussion on the actual comic book issue. Understand?

Thanks - GH

[ShaokhaN]

No problem - guys, feel free to PM me to continue the discussion if you want to, I'll answer.

[brettc1]

So here is a question.

The universes explode because two Earth's collide.

If one Earth is destroyed the universes are both saved.

How, then, can this event end in the total destruction of the multiverse if there are now at least three universes where there is no Earth to collide with another? Those three at least should be safe.

This was probably explained back in the start of the story by Reed but I dont have the issues in front of me.

[Danvidar]

So here is a question.

The universes explode because two Earth's collide.

If one Earth is destroyed the universes are both saved.

How, then, can this event end in the total destruction of the multiverse if there are now at least three universes where there is no Earth to collide with another? Those three at least should be safe.

This was probably explained back in the start of the story by Reed but I dont have the issues in front of me.

Whenever an Incursion is successful the timeline of the whole multiverse contracts a fraction, bringing the end of everything that much closer and everything would end before it should. Also everytime an Incursion is successful the process speeds up.

[Captain_Obvious]

So here is a question.

The universes explode because two Earth's collide.

If one Earth is destroyed the universes are both saved.

How, then, can this event end in the total destruction of the multiverse if there are now at least three universes where there is no Earth to collide with another? Those three at least should be safe.

This was probably explained back in the start of the story by Reed but I dont have the issues in front of me.

Safe from one threat forever, doomed to face new threats alone.

[brettc1]

Whenever an Incursion is successful the timeline of the whole multiverse contracts a fraction, bringing the end of everything that much closer and everything would end before it should. Also everytime an Incursion is successful the process speeds up.

Sure, but aren't there an infinite number of universes, with more being created all the time by quantum mechanics?

Right now there should be an Earth-4,290,002 where the Great Society blew up Earth 616.

Unless the convergence of two universe prevents a quantum doppleganger being generated.

This may indicate that the multiverse expands and contracts through dimensions the same way our universe expands through space. In order to overcome its natural tendency to compress into one reality of zero time the multiverse continues to expand on a quantum level. Remove too many universes and their attraction begins to overcome expansion and they reverse back towards a quantum big crush.

[brettc1]

And has there been any discussion of what happened to Dr Spectrum from the Great Society?

Last we saw Black Bolt left him on Earth 616.

[megaharrison]

This was also the first issue in a while where BP acted like a genuine human being and not some mary sue for me. It was nice to see him a real character with flaws and insecurities and not always having the perfect answer for every hard decision. This is the same kind of stuff that makes people like Steve and Tony and Bruce feel like better characters, and I hope BP can get this kind of development in the future.

And Hickman certainly picked the right choice for Namor to commit a necessary genocide. Hes been an anti-hero bordering on villain for most of his career. Hes not someone that will spout moral absolutes in the future and thus come off as hypocritical, like would be the case if Reed or T'Challa or Stark did this.

And that's what this was, of course, a necessary genocide. The choice was everyone dying in the room, or half the people in the room dying. Obviously there's no "good" solution, and Hickman made that clear with how torn and miserable everyone was. Even Namor was uneasy about it. You know you're putting your characters into a bad situation when BP breaks down and cries.

[TresDias]

Sure, but aren't there an infinite number of universes, with more being created all the time by quantum mechanics?

Right now there should be an Earth-4,290,002 where the Great Society blew up Earth 616.

Unless the convergence of two universe prevents a quantum doppleganger being generated.

This may indicate that the multiverse expands and contracts through dimensions the same way our universe expands through space. In order to overcome its natural tendency to compress into one reality of zero time the multiverse continues to expand on a quantum level. Remove too many universes and their attraction begins to overcome expansion and they reverse back towards a quantum big crush.

I think that explains it. Good job.

And has there been any discussion of what happened to Dr Spectrum from the Great Society?

Last we saw Black Bolt left him on Earth 616.

It's implied that he killed her. Around the panel when Black Bolt screams at her, Maximus was talking about how the heroes/kings were willing to kill to protect their kingdoms.

[Kasper Cole]

This was also the first issue in a while where BP acted like a genuine human being and not some mary sue for me. It was nice to see him a real character with flaws and insecurities and not always having the perfect answer for every hard decision. This is the same kind of stuff that makes people like Steve and Tony and Bruce feel like better characters, and I hope BP can get this kind of development in the future.

And Hickman certainly picked the right choice for Namor to commit a necessary genocide. Hes been an anti-hero bordering on villain for most of his career. Hes not someone that will spout moral absolutes in the future and thus come off as hypocritical, like would be the case if Reed or T'Challa or Stark did this.

And that's what this was, of course, a necessary genocide. The choice was everyone dying in the room, or half the people in the room dying. Obviously there's no "good" solution, and Hickman made that clear with how torn and miserable everyone was. Even Namor was uneasy about it. You know you're putting your characters into a bad situation when BP breaks down and cries.

All I take from this is that you haven't actually been reading comics featuring Black Panther for the past 6 years.

[Mark]

No problem - guys, feel free to PM me to continue the discussion if you want to, I'll answer.

No, at this point we'd do just as well to argue what shade of blue the sky is on any given day.

[Mark]

Another question is how many more worlds is Namor going to blow up before all this is over?

[megaharrison]

All I take from this is that you haven't actually been reading comics featuring Black Panther for the past 6 years.

More or less correct!

[Kasper Cole]

More or less correct!

So then why would you say he's always portrayed as a Mary sue that always has the perfect answer for every decision? You've been complaining about something that isn't even true.