New Avengers #21 Review (w/spoilers)

[Double 0]

Then again, Future Franklin showed up because of the Time Gem.

As for current Franklin, that's a good question. Does anyone know if current Franklin still has his powers at his disposal? Also, IMO, this is another strike on Reed Richards.

[MindofShadow]

Has he?

It's interesting that All-Powerful Future Franklin shows up in Avengers and not this book.

We already know that alternate Hank McCoys managed to subvert the incursions by blowing up thier own Earth.

As has been pointed out time and again, the Illuminati never did try to find the cause of the incursions or even if they could be stopped.

Reed has an near omnipotent demi god for a son.

They have options thry have never even tried, IMO.

Not to mention the various reality warpers walking around.

But... comics I suppose lol

[chaosfist]

They didn't need Black Swan to tell them that this was a possibility, they knew that from day 1. They've never stopped looking for alternatives to having to destroy other planets. They came to the Great Society's Earth to work together, and were willing to continue doing so even after they learned that the Great Society had expended all their methods for bloodlessly ending Incursions. Destroying the other world is, was, and always has been a last resort, and one that they had to use here.



I loved Namor calling them on their handwringing. His comment on them daring to put their own morals above the lives of two universes was spot on.

What alternative solution has been explored on panel? Everything they have done has come from what Black Swan told them. The bombs are copies of her device. The only thing we really don't know about is the rogue planet. They have been manipulated from the start by a person who only wants to continue to play the game and who has no desire to see it come to an end. I also went back and read issue 8 so there are two things we really don't know about but it could just as easily be another way to destroy a planet.

[Jabare]

Has he?

It's interesting that All-Powerful Future Franklin shows up in Avengers and not this book.

We already know that alternate Hank McCoys managed to subvert the incursions by blowing up thier own Earth.

As has been pointed out time and again, the Illuminati never did try to find the cause of the incursions or even if they could be stopped.

Reed has an near omnipotent demi god for a son.

They have options thry have never even tried, IMO.

Thats basically my point. Hickman's story requires that things go this way. But I look at past stories with these characters. Particularly Reed and BP they should have multiple ways to approach this problem.

Reed can create a device to neutralize Galactus he can bring people back from the dead. These guys are beyond super geniuses, but they've been close minded about this since the beginning because thats what the story demanded. I was surprised they let things get this far at first.

[Juggernaut Punch]

What alternative solution has been explored on panel? Everything they have done has come from what Black Swan told them. The bombs are copies of her device. The only thing we really don't know about is the rogue planet. They have been manipulated from the start by a person who only wants to continue to play the game and who has no desire to see it come to an end.

They don't have any alternate solutions, that's the point. They had to resort to the planet busters, because they couldn't find any other way, but that doesn't mean they haven't tried looking for other ways. In fact, this is the very first time, other than the Mapmaker planet, when they've had to resort to blowing up the other planet themselves. Every other time, their search for alternate methods has been interrupted by someone else blowing up the other Earth.

[Tony Stark]

After reading this issue the Illuminati can say "Now I have become Death, the destroyer of Worlds." That's the first thing I thought after reading this.

[divad4686]

I'm not doubting his effort to save everyone just the ramifications everyone will view him for and for the fact that later in the future he'll do the same thing with his "Ends justify the means!" not related to incursions. Really at this point I kinda expect him to flood another city. But I kinda figured I'll get mobbed by the Namor fans for having an opinion against him so I say bring it, throw your insults and your thumbs down.

He didn't insult you.

[Andy]

So the question I have is what happened to the GS' Green Lantern? I'm assuming Black Bolt didn't outright kill her(him/it?) and I don't recall BB dragging her back to her world and just leaving her there to die. As far as I can tell she's unconscious somewhere in the desert and is going to be in quite a tizzy when she wakes.

[davew128]

So the question I have is what happened to the GS' Green Lantern? I'm assuming Black Bolt didn't outright kill her(him/it?) and I don't recall BB dragging her back to her world and just leaving her there to die. As far as I can tell she's unconscious somewhere in the desert and is going to be in quite a tizzy when she wakes.

Maybe a new character to write as a supporting character in an ongoing?

[MindofShadow]

So the question I have is what happened to the GS' Green Lantern? I'm assuming Black Bolt didn't outright kill her(him/it?) and I don't recall BB dragging her back to her world and just leaving her there to die. As far as I can tell she's unconscious somewhere in the desert and is going to be in quite a tizzy when she wakes.

She would have to have some great durability to survive a Black Bolt scream.

[Andy]

Maybe a new character to write as a supporting character in an ongoing?

Whatever the case she needs a costume redesign if she's sticking around. Eeesh. Anyways, I expect her to play a role but Im skeptical that she's now a mainstay of the MU. Quite possible I'm wrong though.

[Andy]

She would have to have some great durability to survive a Black Bolt scream.

10 years ago maybe, sure. A Black Bolt scream was also once capable of destroying a planet but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, does it?


Regardless, I doubt Black Bolt outright murdered her.

[Mark]

Perhaps the best issue of this series and certainly the most important issue of any Marvel book in a looooooong time. They finally crossed the line, and there's no going back.

Of course there is. You think body count or mass murder matter to marvel? Hulkworld comes to mind. Kill a person, a city, a world, a universe and three months from now it will be forgotten in the next big event. Life is meaningless in the mu and this issue pretty much proves it. Either it's the Illuminati blowing up worlds and murdering billions of people or it's Tony causing Bruce to be the Hulk or it's Johnny causing Ben to be the Thing for good... This is marvel. Heroes need not apply.

[Mark]

Namor did what had to be done to save two universes. However, doing the "dirty work" isn't equal to being heroic.

Taking innocent lives of men, women and children irregardless of the context is horrible.

Yes, trillions have been saved but billions have been lost. That's still a terrifying tragedy and it says a lot about other members of the Illuminati that they bluntly refused to do it at the last minute.

I have a minor nitpick though, if I remember correctly Hank McCoy practically destroyed a Ghost Box planet during Ellis's run. His refusal here to pull the trigger is odd because he's done some planet killing before.

What if what he did doesn't work?

[Nosocialize]

It also rather poignantly answered the

spoilers:

Why have Namor around question. Because he'll do what the rest won't.

end of spoilers

Makes me think Hickman is angling to have Namor be a villain.