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  1. #76
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukevmarlowe View Post
    It's definitely the right narrative though - Jeen read Bobby's thoughts (without invitation) and told him he was gay before he was in a position where he was comfortable admitting that to himself. It was a pretty big breach of trust.

    Christian showed up briefly, no Emma
    Thats completely different from outing him. He can feel violated for having his thoughts read without consent but Jean only approached him with that info. She didnt tell anyone else or make him tell anyone. That was HIS choice. The way his life changed afterwards in terms of dating, people seeing him as a gay man, etc, happened on his terms. All she did was let him know he had her support in whatever decision he made and he himself chose to no longer keep his sexuality to himself. She wasnt about to go spreading that out beyond their private conversation. Its unfair to blame her for that and I think its cowardly for Bobby to not bare responsibility for his own actions

  2. #77
    Mutant Midnighter NewMutant's Avatar
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    I can't believe I forgot to get this before I left for work. I will read tonight!
    I'm a fighter. I fight for normal people. But I'll never be one. I'm not a hero. Some people can't handle that.

    #midnightermonday

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  3. #78
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    The thing about Jean and Bobby is complicated, but I think something some people need to understand is that it's not an universal truth that Jean did this super horrible fucked up thing. I'm gay and I didn't thought what she did was so wrong. Well, I guess the part where she knows from her telepathy. But, like, irl, if someone for some reason thinks/knows that you're gay, and, well, wants to talk to you about it and help/be supportive, I think that's fine. I know this is overall the unpopular opinion here on CBR, but I'm not the only one. I remember at couple people on the Marvel LGBT thread agreed, and, even Jay from X-Plain the X-Men.

    Now, Sina is totally on his right to think it was wrong and I understand why. But I just think it's annoying that he makes it so those are also Bobby's feelings when that wasn't actually how it was when the thing actually happened. And that he says "outed" when that's just not what she did.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    The thing about Jean and Bobby is complicated, but I think something some people need to understand is that it's not an universal truth that Jean did this super horrible fucked up thing. I'm gay and I didn't thought what she did was so wrong. Well, I guess the part where she knows from her telepathy. But, like, irl, if someone for some reason thinks/knows that you're gay, and, well, wants to talk to you about it and help/be supportive, I think that's fine. I know this is overall the unpopular opinion here on CBR, but I'm not the only one. I remember at couple people on the Marvel LGBT thread agreed, and, even Jay from X-Plain the X-Men.

    Now, Sina is totally on his right to think it was wrong and I understand why. But I just think it's annoying that he makes it so those are also Bobby's feelings when that wasn't actually how it was when the thing actually happened. And that he says "outed" when that's just not what she did.
    I completely agree with this. I don't think Jeen outed Bobby in the traditional sense. She didn't tell anyone else besides young Bobby. On the other hand, I can see how some people think she outed Bobby to himself and then older Bobby was forced to come out since his younger version was out. It's complicated/

    The real life comparison would a friend borrowing your phone/computer. They accidentally discover photos/messages/apps that strongly indicate that you are gay. Your friend privately confronts you about it and offers support. I'm not sure what other options would be better. Should the friend just say nothing? Jeen also had the benefit of seeing Older Bobby and knowing that he never came out.

  5. #80

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    I think it's possible for younger Bobby and older Bobby to have had different feelings on what Jeen did, and I was really glad Grace touched on how Bobby felt about remembering his younger self going back in the closet. The only part of that conversation that didn't quite sit right with me was that it felt like the wrong Jean got lectured for what happened. But I'm trying not to think too hard on that because then I just get annoyed about Extermination again.

    This Week's Comics: Lazarus: Risen #2, House of X #1, Wicked + Divine #44

  6. #81
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    The thing about Jean and Bobby is complicated, but I think something some people need to understand is that it's not an universal truth that Jean did this super horrible fucked up thing. I'm gay and I didn't thought what she did was so wrong. Well, I guess the part where she knows from her telepathy. But, like, irl, if someone for some reason thinks/knows that you're gay, and, well, wants to talk to you about it and help/be supportive, I think that's fine. I know this is overall the unpopular opinion here on CBR, but I'm not the only one. I remember at couple people on the Marvel LGBT thread agreed, and, even Jay from X-Plain the X-Men.

    Now, Sina is totally on his right to think it was wrong and I understand why. But I just think it's annoying that he makes it so those are also Bobby's feelings when that wasn't actually how it was when the thing actually happened. And that he says "outed" when that's just not what she did.
    So...he just projects his own feelings into his scripts despite (not reading) what recent existing source materials may indicate and writes what/how he thinks it should have been, regardless of the definitive source material stating otherwise.
    I was never a fan of his work from the little I've read, but if what you say is true, I will absolutely never read anything written by him.

  7. #82
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Wow, he really went back to every part of the run and made me feel for Ice Wizard. Hell, he did Extermination better than Extermination. I salute you, Grace.

    Jean mind probing Bobby was wrong and it was good that they tied it up and he is allowed to get it off his chest for a page when it's literally caused by Ice Gandalf freaking out about it.
    Omega Level Rodent Fighter

  8. #83

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    The definition of "outing" is to reveal the sexuality of someone - and that's what Jean did - she may not have told the world, but she did reveal it to Bobby before he was necessarily ready (or willing) to deal with it. Completely agree that it's going to be looked at differently by different people, so I think Sina was just expressing what a large number of people felt - he was never going to please everyone

  9. #84
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Nice BAIT cover, Marvel. Bloody hell.
    No more Spit Girl... I guess.
    "This takes place before UXM #1". Ya don't say, lass. Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by magenta View Post
    I completely agree with this. I don't think Jeen outed Bobby in the traditional sense. She didn't tell anyone else besides young Bobby. On the other hand, I can see how some people think she outed Bobby to himself and then older Bobby was forced to come out since his younger version was out. It's complicated/

    The real life comparison would a friend borrowing your phone/computer. They accidentally discover photos/messages/apps that strongly indicate that you are gay. Your friend privately confronts you about it and offers support. I'm not sure what other options would be better. Should the friend just say nothing? Jeen also had the benefit of seeing Older Bobby and knowing that he never came out.
    Pretty much that. The only thing I'll complain about is that the Bendis talk makes it look like she's telling Bobby's he's gay rather than query about it.
    "Cable was right!"

  10. #85
    Mighty Member Dante Milton's Avatar
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    This was a great end cap to Grace's Iceman work, with a lot of continuity callbacks and some really good emotional beats and catharsis. I'm not a huge fan of Stockman's art though, he does this weird thing with elongated faces that I find distracting.

    About the Jean thing, I also don't think it's accurate to say that she outed Bobby. However, many other people had a problem with how that whole scene played out and I think it's fair to address that. I also think it's fine and realistic for Bobby to have reassessed the situation after some time and distance and decide that he wasn't cool with how that all went down.

    With the way Madin has acted in previous issues I don't know that I believe they would take a big check from Bobby.

    I kind of got the feeling that Grace was maybe setting up a possible Christian/Bobby pairing.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    I kind of got the feeling that Grace was maybe setting up a possible Christian/Bobby pairing.
    Even if he doesn't, I did like the way that little exchange played out - Christian acknowledging that Bobby gave him something vital and all but absent in his own life, even as he's only able to return the favor in a very base sense.

    This Week's Comics: Lazarus: Risen #2, House of X #1, Wicked + Divine #44

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    spoilers:
    In a way, this kind of helps fix up Disassembled a bit. Or moreso, Bobby's scenes (which weren't really bad to begin with). But I kind of like how Bobby and Jean's talk in this issue dovetails nicely into them being buddy-buddy in Disassembled. Or him joking around with Bishop. And best of all, he completely wraps up Battle of the Atom by killing all of them. Sad about Kymera but meh to the rest.

    i care about nuPyro a little bit more now that anyone not named Guggenheim is writing him. but i wanted to hear Johnny's "A Song Of Ice and Fire" jingle.
    end of spoilers
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    spoilers:
    Daken uses Bobby and the future X-Men to pull a coup-de-tat and steal the M'Kraan crystal and also destroy the entire Milky Way Galaxy.
    end of spoilers

    This was nice though. I miss small, intimate moments like this oneshot provided.

    spoilers:
    Didn't Daken just go for the crystal to rule the whole universe? Where did he distroy the galaxy and kill all the bota characters?
    end of spoilers

  13. #88
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    So...he just projects his own feelings into his scripts despite (not reading) what recent existing source materials may indicate and writes what/how he thinks it should have been, regardless of the definitive source material stating otherwise.
    I was never a fan of his work from the little I've read, but if what you say is true, I will absolutely never read anything written by him.
    I... I wouldn't go that far? I think his writing has some flaws and I pointed out something I didn't like on here, but overall I thought his Iceman run had more pros than cons. You should probably figure out by yourself what you think if you want to.

  14. #89
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Jeen did nothing wrong, without her Bobby would still be in the closet

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    So, my thoughts, specifically about Daken/Bobby...

    spoilers:
    - My biggest disappointment is that we have Dumbledore Iceman with him... I just wanted to appreciate those bed/making out panels ok??? But like this I can't do that as much... I'm not even joking, that is LEGIT my biggest disappointment(along with the artist, I miss the ones from the first volume...) lol. I guess I'm gonna have to accept power bottom Daken as my headcanon at least for this AU.

    - I'm happy that they're, well, finally a for real canon pairing, even if it's on an alternate timeline. But the fact that grandpa Bobby tells how things went, is probably gonna make main Bobby not even consider anything ever lol.

    - I'm not mad that Daken is still a betraying POS tbh. Mostly cause its an AU anyway, but also cause I never really expected them to have a cute happily ever after kind of story, I welcome messiness, though ideally not going that far...
    end of spoilers

    And again, they made him the evil bisexual who manipulates ad sleeps with everyone to achive his goals... looks like this trope will never end for him, even this happens, or he's the expendable gay character who just gets killed off

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