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  1. #91
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Wait a second,her throwing a missle back is superior than Thor manhandling Hulk? Even in the first Avengers film he was K'oing space whales with one punch. Don't see how a missle became superior to Hulk?
    Nowadays, "manhandling Hulk" isn't something special. Hulk has basically become the MCU's Colossus whom the new person beats to prove how powerful they are. Its a bit sad, really. KO'ing space whales is absolutely inferior to Carol's feats, as it is inferior to Thor's feats in Infinity War (restarting Nidevellir, if that's considered as legit, but I think its still SMvsFL). Cripes, base Iron Man with Bleeding Edge could beat Hulk now, based on his performance against Thanos and Cull Obsidian.

  2. #92
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Nowadays, "manhandling Hulk" isn't something special. Hulk has basically become the MCU's Colossus whom the new person beats to prove how powerful they are. Its a bit sad, really. KO'ing space whales is absolutely inferior to Carol's feats, as it is inferior to Thor's feats in Infinity War (restarting Nidevellir, if that's considered as legit, but I think its still SMvsFL). Cripes, base Iron Man with Bleeding Edge could beat Hulk now, based on his performance against Thanos and Cull Obsidian.
    the thanos fight is a high showing for thanos not a low showing for hulk I mean it's not like baby Groot beat him.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Nowadays, "manhandling Hulk" isn't something special. Hulk has basically become the MCU's Colossus whom the new person beats to prove how powerful they are.
    What the heck are you talking about? Hulk has two losses, to the specially built Iron Man Veronica suit designed specifically to defeat the Hulk (and even then, Tony needed to drop a building on Hulk to win) and Thanos. Yes, Hulk defeated Thor because Gamemaster cheated, but Hulk proved in that fight that he was actually stronger than Thor.

    Its a bit sad, really. KO'ing space whales is absolutely inferior to Carol's feats, as it is inferior to Thor's feats in Infinity War (restarting Nidevellir, if that's considered as legit, but I think its still SMvsFL). Cripes, base Iron Man with Bleeding Edge could beat Hulk now, based on his performance against Thanos and Cull Obsidian.
    That's not base Iron Man. That's Iron Man in the most advanced suit ever he has ever built.

    Ok, we're going to have to disagree on the missile feat. You think it's amazing, it think it's standard superhero fare, far beneath what other heroes, including Wonder Woman, have shown at their most powerful. It's okay. People disagree on stuff. This is one of disagreements.

    It really doesn't matter which is stronger than the other. Carol cannot get close to Diana without Diana unleashing her power, which is significantly more powerful than anything Carol has tanked. One hit by that and if by some miracle Carol is still somewhat conscious (which I seriously doubt), Diana drives a sword in her heart.

    To summarize, if Carol makes it into the air, she has two choices:

    1) Tire herself out trying to blast Wonder Woman, whose combat reflexes, combat speed, and defenses mean she's never getting hit.

    2) Fly down to try and punch her or hit her with her AOE attack, which leaves her wide open to Diana's superior AOE attack.

    Either is a loss for Carol. Until she gets better feats in Endgame, she cannot defeat Diana.

  4. #94
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    ? The missile feat is far beyond Wonder Woman AOE. That think is moving insanely fast and is colossal. If Wonder Woman tried to stop that thing she'd be splattered, AOE attack or not.

    Edit: yeah it might seem standard big comic book movie stuff, but it's like if the space whale hulk punched was going at Mach 1. The speed ramps up the necessary power to slow it down way up.
    Last edited by moonknight11; 03-15-2019 at 11:57 PM.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basara View Post
    What the heck are you talking about? Hulk has two losses, to the specially built Iron Man Veronica suit designed specifically to defeat the Hulk (and even then, Tony needed to drop a building on Hulk to win) and Thanos. Yes, Hulk defeated Thor because Gamemaster cheated, but Hulk proved in that fight that he was actually stronger than Thor.



    That's not base Iron Man. That's Iron Man in the most advanced suit ever he has ever built.

    Ok, we're going to have to disagree on the missile feat. You think it's amazing, it think it's standard superhero fare, far beneath what other heroes, including Wonder Woman, have shown at their most powerful. It's okay. People disagree on stuff. This is one of disagreements.

    It really doesn't matter which is stronger than the other. Carol cannot get close to Diana without Diana unleashing her power, which is significantly more powerful than anything Carol has tanked. One hit by that and if by some miracle Carol is still somewhat conscious (which I seriously doubt), Diana drives a sword in her heart.

    To summarize, if Carol makes it into the air, she has two choices:

    1) Tire herself out trying to blast Wonder Woman, whose combat reflexes, combat speed, and defenses mean she's never getting hit.

    2) Fly down to try and punch her or hit her with her AOE attack, which leaves her wide open to Diana's superior AOE attack.

    Either is a loss for Carol. Until she gets better feats in Endgame, she cannot defeat Diana.
    "Diana unleashing her power" means what exactly? I really need to know. Are you referring to the blast that finished Ares? Because that was Ares' OWN power striking him.

    Here is why I think Diana wins: Speed. Just barely enough of an edge to cross the gap and shank Carol before she gets airborne.

    If she DOES get airborne (im cool exploring the option just for fun) than Carol has lots of advantages. Diana can block/absorb most beams initially but she's the one playing defence. Not a good position, being the one defending. Theoretically, she absorbs enough to blast back and takes Carol out. But again, Carol won't be standing there dumbstruck like Ares, but zipping around all over the place while still blasting. I dont recall Carol ever showing signs of struggle or strain from using her powers frequently. Stamina seems fine.

    I think Diana can MAYBE win this way, but not the majority. Best to stick to stabby stab at the bell.

    Edit: if by "unleashes her power" you mean Diana's AoE, that thing doesn't suck, but hardly has the power to put Carol down. She shouts "yahoo!" while belly flopping through fighter jets lol. The AoE's best feats are when it FAILED to KO or particularly hurt any big bad guy it was directed at.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 03-15-2019 at 11:49 PM.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    "Diana unleashing her power" means what exactly?
    Hitting Carol with an AOE blast that knocks the likes of Ares, Doomsday, and Steppenwolf for a loop. Carol doesn't have anything even remotely close to the durability of those three.

    If she DOES get airborne (im cool exploring the option just for fun) than Carol has lots of advantages. Diana can block/absorb most beams initially but she's the one playing defence. Not a good position, being the one defending. Theoretically, she absorbs enough to blast back and takes Carol out. But again, Carol won't be standing there dumbstruck like Ares, but zipping around all over the place while still blasting. I dont recall Carol ever showing signs of struggle or strain from using her powers frequently. Stamina seems fine.
    I'll take the bet that Carol's stamina isn't even close to someone who has the strength to make Ares, Doomsday, and Superman feel her punches. Diana is very much an experienced soldier. Just how much energy do you think Diana will be wasting while Carol zips around and continues to fire hoping against hope that one of her blasts will actually hit Diana.

    Edit: if by "unleashes her power" you mean Diana's AoE, that thing doesn't suck, but hardly has the power to put Carol down. She shouts "yahoo!" while belly flopping through fighter jets lol.
    Please, those things explode when hit by machine gun fire from a Quinjet prototype (IIRC, that's how Maria killed the sniper Kree flying right at her after Maria outmaneuvered her). That's hardly a major durability feat. Carol bellyflopping a fighter is no different than Iron Man accidently going through an F-22 in the very first MCU movie. Good feat, but it's not like taking a punch from Superman.

    The AoE's best feats are when it FAILED to KO or particularly hurt any big bad guy it was directed at.
    Actually, the AOE's best feats are throwing back Doomsday, Steppenwolf, and Ares. Keep in mind, Doomsday and Steppenwolf actually did take punches from Superman that hurt them less than Diana's AOE.

  7. #97
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basara View Post
    Please, those things explode when hit by machine gun fire from a Quinjet prototype (IIRC, that's how Maria killed the sniper Kree flying right at her after Maria outmaneuvered her). That's hardly a major durability feat. Carol bellyflopping a fighter is no different than Iron Man accidently going through an F-22 in the very first MCU movie. Good feat, but it's not like taking a punch from Superman.
    Not the same kind of ships, the one downed by autocannon fire (*not* machineguns, at least 20 mm exploding shells - look up the speed and destructive power of those) was an escape/utility pod, the one Carol bellyflopped through is what I assume is an actual Kree fighter.

    Also, Carol's best durability feat is getting slammed by the force of a 300 ton object going at 6.5 km/s, over 150,00 tons of force, which is basically what the missile feat is. The belly flop and punching through spaceships pales in comparison.
    Last edited by Twickster; 03-16-2019 at 02:07 AM.

  8. #98

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    Yeah, calling major BS on Diana's AoE hitting harder than Superman. She hits Steppenwolf in the tunnel scene with it. He just... slides backwards a bit, more or less non plussed from the experience. Which is exactly how DD treats it. He gets pushed backwards on 2 occasions but never gets hurt or knocked off his feet.

    I think she does bounce SW around in the final battle, but iirc, he was already airborne when it hit him, and unlike Superman's punches or Arthur's trident or her own sword, he takes no visible damage from it.

    So that's 3 occasions of it doing nothing but push some bricks a little bit, and 1 occasion of it maybe hurting but not nearly as much as her friends managed to.

    As Twickster stated, the ship she crashed through was an actual war ship and not an escape pod.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  9. #99
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I think she does bounce SW around in the final battle, but iirc, he was already airborne when it hit him, and unlike Superman's punches or Arthur's trident or her own sword, he takes no visible damage from it.
    Also a note, I don't put much stock in "bouncing" anyone. These characters are what, 200 lbs max? A bit heavier for Steppenwolf or Hulk-sized objects. Unless the target is actively moving forward or bracing against it, knocking a character around is an absolutely negligible display of force.

  10. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Also a note, I don't put much stock in "bouncing" anyone. These characters are what, 200 lbs max? A bit heavier for Steppenwolf or Hulk-sized objects. Unless the target is actively moving forward or bracing against it, knocking a character around is an absolutely negligible display of force.
    Eh, yes and no. Doomsday for example was right next to a car when he was struck by her first AoE. Said car was torn apart and tossed to pieces, so it's not like the AoE is literally just wind or something. It also knocks street lamps out of the ground like 200 feet away.

    In the case of SW getting hit by it in the tunnel scene, he was in fact moving forward and bracing against it, complete with Axe dug into the earth for support.

    Not saying it can hurt Carol, just clarifying my position on the thing.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    As Twickster stated, the ship she crashed through was an actual war ship and not an escape pod.
    It was a Kree fighter as well, or Maria would have not had such a hard time with it.

    Look, it's really simple, heroes are judged by their foes. Diana has battled the likes of Doomsday, Superman, Ares, and Steppenwolf. She has damaged Doomsday and killed Ares. Carol has battled Skrulls and Kree, who are significantly lower on the power scale than what Diana has faced. I don't care how big those missiles, fighters, and ships are, Doomsday would vaporize all of them in less than 3 seconds with one blast. Am I supposed to be impressed by Carol manhandling someone so far beneath what Diana has faced?

    Carol has thus far faced no one of significant skill, strength, speed, or power, something Diana has displayed she has in spades. Until that happens, no one is going to convince me that Carol is even in Diana's league.

    So, until Endgame comes and gives Carol some actual solid feats, I remain in the camp that Diana wins this 10/10.

  12. #102
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basara View Post
    It was a Kree fighter as well, or Maria would have not had such a hard time with it.
    Dude, it was a pod and not a fighter. You believing otherwise does not make it not the case. All this means is your basic Kree pod is apparently dangerous enough to threaten a modern-ish human fighterplane enhanced with alien tech.

  13. #103

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    Found one more example of her using the AoE on a brick. Ares takes one point blank to the face while charging into it with his blade storm. It tosses him maybe 200 feet? This one actually seems to register. It makes him exclaim in pain and he is slow to rise. So that's probably her best feat. DD and SW were seemingly better off but at least they weren't point blank.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  14. #104
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Found one more example of her using the AoE on a brick. Ares takes one point blank to the face while charging into it with his blade storm. It tosses him maybe 200 feet? This one actually seems to register. It makes him exclaim in pain and he is slow to rise. So that's probably her best feat. DD and SW were seemingly better off but at least they weren't point blank.
    Ares diddn't seem the brickiest of bricks though. At the very least, I don't recall any significant durability feats from him.

  15. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Basara View Post
    It was a Kree fighter as well, or Maria would have not had such a hard time with it.

    Look, it's really simple, heroes are judged by their foes. Diana has battled the likes of Doomsday, Superman, Ares, and Steppenwolf. She has damaged Doomsday and killed Ares. Carol has battled Skrulls and Kree, who are significantly lower on the power scale than what Diana has faced. I don't care how big those missiles, fighters, and ships are, Doomsday would vaporize all of them in less than 3 seconds with one blast. Am I supposed to be impressed by Carol manhandling someone so far beneath what Diana has faced?

    Carol has thus far faced no one of significant skill, strength, speed, or power, something Diana has displayed she has in spades. Until that happens, no one is going to convince me that Carol is even in Diana's league.

    So, until Endgame comes and gives Carol some actual solid feats, I remain in the camp that Diana wins this 10/10.
    Again, feel free to argue Diana wins. I think she does in an Arena fight by being just barely fast enough at the bell. I just take issue with your over hyping certain feats and downplaying others. Diana can win under SOME conditions (like standard Arena conditions) but not under EVERY set of conditions like you seem to think.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

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