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Thread: Creator's Pet

  1. #91
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The main antagonist of Ammy's Hulk run was Ammy's pride, and the only throughline of the book was his continued character deconstruction. Cho is Pak's baby, certainly, but he's done a lot to expose his flaws and have him fuck up because of them.
    I get the impression that a lot of people don't like protagonists where their flaws are a major feature of the story. The standard story structure of the protagonist always being in the right gets so ingrained that they read the character flaws as accidental instead of intentional.

  2. #92
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I get the impression that a lot of people don't like protagonists where their flaws are a major feature of the story. The standard story structure of the protagonist always being in the right gets so ingrained that they read the character flaws as accidental instead of intentional.
    I think it depends how the flaws are presented and executed.

    Like, if they don't get too much in the way of the hero being a hero or their strength of character, I don't think people mind it too much.

    Of course, sometimes these "flaws" aren't believable when they're grafted onto a character who's never had them before.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    how can you be the pet character of your own book
    Depends on who it is.

    Some folks take issue with attempts to flush out a character.
    Some take issue with trying to show a fully developed character.

    All the little things that made Peter Parker and others APPEALING are NOT allowed to be used on characters certain folks hate.

    Take Riri-some want to HATE her because she's supposedly arrogant. Yet don't want to see HOW she got that way or what caused it.
    Others don't like seeing an intelligent BLACK female who can stand toe to toe with Reed Richards.

    Take Cyborg.
    He's a CRAPPY character in comics. That is Batman's Internet, transport and lonely guy. And yet every attempt to make him more than than is met with resistance by editorial.
    Meanwhile cartoon & live action Cyborg is the one EVERYONE wants to see. Because he's ore than a cyborg-he's interesting, funny and does not DWELL on being half machine.

    Some just want certain characters to be in the ground and do as LITTLE as possible in a story. So they remain UNSELLABLE and not a threat to the ones they like.

    That is why you see such a push back to certain characters. The perception of if Miles get too popular it will get Peter tossed away.

    When in reality Miles does more to HELP Peter Parker than hinder him. Just like Harley does not hinder Batman.

  4. #94
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    For a character to be a pet in their own title would be a bit harder, but possible. Just apply the requirements for one in a team book to a character and their supporting cast. Having the character be a Mary Sue, and a lot of "say they are awesome but never show it" are both symptoms. Miles beating people easily when they are far outside his "weight class" is definitely a sign of bad writing, if nothing else.

  5. #95
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    Jim Starlin and thanos
    That's a valid point, but the bigger problem is that there's not a single writer at Marvel, especially Modern Marvel, that gives Thanos character justice. They just write him as Angry Mongul.

    Starlin's problem isn't using Earth's heroes as expendable red shirts and making Galactus look like a fool. It's that he keeps retreading Infinity Gauntlet and he doesn't have anything new to say with the character.

    Anyway, Jane Foster under the dreaded Aaron is the most obvious one, but i also add:

    -Monica Rambeau under Roger Stern

    -Batman under Frank Miller

    -Hulk under Greg Pak

    -Modern Carol Danvers under Marvel Editorial (LOL)

    -Luke Cage and Kitty Pryde under Bendis
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    My issues with modern Thanos. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...huggish-Thanos
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree View Post
    That's a valid point, but the bigger problem is that there's not a single writer at Marvel, especially Modern Marvel, that gives Thanos character justice. They just write him as Angry Mongul.

    Starlin's problem isn't using Earth's heroes as expendable red shirts and making Galactus look like a fool. It's that he keeps retreading Infinity Gauntlet and he doesn't have anything new to say with the character.

    Anyway, Jane Foster under the dreaded Aaron is the most obvious one, but i also add:

    -Monica Rambeau under Roger Stern

    -Batman under Frank Miller

    -Hulk under Greg Pak

    -Modern Carol Danvers under Marvel Editorial (LOL)

    -Luke Cage and Kitty Pryde under Bendis
    Isn't that a sign that Thanos is just a bad character overall?

  7. #97
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Isn't that a sign that Thanos is just a bad character overall?
    "Nobody can write Thanos but Starlin and Starlin can only write one single story with Thanos that he keeps telling over and over again."

    Yeah, that sounds like a bad character to me.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Oh this is interesting, but I think the pet characters of each creators are essentially what they created or loved in a way they will always write them whether by showing how great they are or making a cameo here and there in their work.

    Greg Pak : Amadeus Cho, Hercules, and Hulk.
    Dan Slott : She-Hulk, Thing, Peter Parker, Moon Knight, Squirrel Girl
    Bendis : Jessica Jones and Kitty Pryde
    Jim Starlin : Thanos, Gamora, Pip the Troll, Gunn's Guardian of the Galaxy, and Starfox
    Donny Cates : Venom, Thanos, Sentry
    Roger Stern : Monica Rambeau
    Jason Aaron : Jane Foster, Thor, Wolverine, Punisher, and Quentin Quire
    Steve Englehart : Mantis
    Jack Kirby : The Thing
    Nick Spencer : Taskmaster, Boomerang, and Beetle
    Chip Zdarsky : Peter Parker
    Jonathan Hickman : Victor von Doom, Franklin, Richards, Dr. Strange, T'challa, and Apocalypse
    Jeph Loeb : Red Hulk and Sam Alexanders
    Ed Brisson : Glob Herman
    Mark Waid : Cyclops
    Geoff Johns : The Thing
    Mark Millar : Spider-Man
    Grant Morisson : Xorn, Professor X, Magneto, and Wolverine

    That's the top of my head for now.
    Last edited by Laufeyson; 09-26-2020 at 02:17 AM.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Greg Pak : Amadeus Cho, Hercules, and Hulk.
    Pak's Hulk was irritating, Hulk was a villain in his stories (like World War Hulk) yet we we're supposed to blindly agree with him and everyone he fought went down like chumps. It got so bad other writers had to retcon things so characters like Iron Man would lose against him, like the weapon he made (I think it was a bullet that weakened or depowered Hulk) was replaced secretly by a Hulk sympathiser to be a dud. WWH would have ended very differently if everyone fought smartly rather than punching real good.

    Edit: I may not like the Hulk but I'm not against him winning logically and against other characters who are written properly, and to do this he'd need more than just smashing people. WWH was supposed to be smarter than Savage Hulk, for instance. It takes the winds out of his sales if everyone else just takes a dive because the story says so, and it makes all the characters come off as bad. Including Hulk. Not much to prove you're the strongest if the competition defeats itself before he got there.

    Bendis : Jessica Jones and Kitty Pryde
    And Luke Cage.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 09-26-2020 at 12:10 AM.

  10. #100
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    Jim Starling- Thanos
    Bendis- Luke Cage
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  11. #101
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    "Nobody can write Thanos but Starlin and Starlin can only write one single story with Thanos that he keeps telling over and over again."

    Yeah, that sounds like a bad character to me.
    That's just your opinion. I like Thanos because he's a cosmic philosopher and magnificent bastard schemer with a few genuine sympathetic moments and a compelling arc from angsty self-deception to clarity. What Thanks needs Is a writer that remembers that he's smarter than Angry Mongul. If you are mandated to write the character as straight up badguy at least write Thanos with Dr. Doom level complexity.

    There are reasons why Starlin's 1970's and 1990's stories are considered classics and why Thanos was chosen as the big bad of the MCU.

    Cosmic haters like you gonna hate. I'll just ignore discussions like this from this point on.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    My issues with modern Thanos. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...huggish-Thanos
    #RememberThor

  12. #102
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Pak's Hulk was irritating, Hulk was a villain in his stories (like World War Hulk) yet we we're supposed to blindly agree with him and everyone he fought went down like chumps. It got so bad other writers had to retcon things so characters like Iron Man would lose against him, like the weapon he made (I think it was a bullet that weakened or depowered Hulk) was replaced secretly by a Hulk sympathiser to be a dud. WWH would have ended very differently if everyone fought smartly rather than punching real good.

    Edit: I may not like the Hulk but I'm not against him winning logically and against other characters who are written properly, and to do this he'd need more than just smashing people. WWH was supposed to be smarter than Savage Hulk, for instance. It takes the winds out of his sales if everyone else just takes a dive because the story says so, and it makes all the characters come off as bad. Including Hulk. Not much to prove you're the strongest if the competition defeats itself before he got there.



    And Luke Cage.
    I think the villain part can be seen from the perspective side where if we read it from Hulk's PoV which saw that he was sent into another planet with a rocket implanted with a huge bomb to destroy him, then there is a big reason to say that the entire Illuminati are the villains here instead of Hulk. But, you are right the World War Hulk is too stupid to be strong and that's because he is playing with the rule of cool there where Hulk will become more frightening more threatening IF he can defeat the Hulkbuster, Dr. Strange, and FF. But, it's still stupid though.

    I also agree with Luke Cage as Bendis' pet.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  13. #103
    Saoirse Ronan The Accuser CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Isn't that a sign that Thanos is just a bad character overall?
    Thing is that Thanos ran his course as a character. I think Marvel The End (2003) should have been the definitive ending of the character but sadly no one in superhero comics stays dead.
    Why i don't like Thanos Rising https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-Thanos-Rising
    My issues with modern Thanos. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...huggish-Thanos
    #RememberThor

  14. #104
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    I think the villain part can be seen from the perspective side where if we read it from Hulk's PoV which saw that he was sent into another planet with a rocket implanted with a huge bomb to destroy him, then there is a big reason to say that the entire Illuminati are the villains here instead of Hulk. But, you are right the World War Hulk is too stupid to be strong and that's because he is playing with the rule of cool there where Hulk will become more frightening more threatening IF he can defeat the Hulkbuster, Dr. Strange, and FF. But, it's still stupid though.

    I also agree with Luke Cage as Bendis' pet.
    Hulk's done all that before though. Particularly the Hulkbuster stuff. Prior to the movies I can't think of the Hulkbuster ever getting a win on Hulk.

    Same with beating up teams of heroes. Hulk's always been a team wrecker, he's the original Avengers level threat after all.

    As for Strange, Hulk takes him out with trickery, it's made pretty clear prior to getting his hands broken that Strange represents a threat Hulk can't brute force his way through.

    Honestly, I'd flip it around and say that since the Bendis Era began there's been a real big focus on street levelers over powerhouses. Maybe a Creator's Breed as opposed to a creator's pet.

    To the point that a powerhouse character being a powerhouse, as opposed to jobbing out is seen as favoritism.

  15. #105

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    Silk under Dan Slott. Terrible character.

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