Is Marvel Trying to Steal Away Fans from WW with Capt. Marvel?

[Geraldofrivia]

Just to be be really accurate (or pedantic), that tank weighed about 30 tons when ready for battle (likely a little less without crew and ammo at the base), she did get a slight wound at the Battle of the Beach, and the lightning that she defeated Ares with was called down by Ares himself: Diana caught its power and threw it back at Ares.

But I think the most important thing about Wonder Woman in the movie wasn't what she did, but that it managed to create an empathic, caring, strong superheroine. Who was strong not only in the sense of being physically strong, but strong in morals and in character as well. And perhaps most importantly, made the people around her stronger and better persons.

Most of us watch superheroes in Imax for the spectacle. Character is super important so is power level, CGI, fight choreography.
Ares and Diana are Greek Gods and audience expect them to fight like them.

[Dicer]

I don't understand the point of this topic.
Who exactly is Marvel trying to "steal"? There's a huge overlap between people who watch Marvel movies and people who watch DC movies.
The only people they can actually "steal" are the fanboys who need to have a narrow-minded point of view but added together these people don't even make up a fraction of a percent.

[Gaelforce]

Just to be be really accurate (or pedantic), that tank weighed about 30 tons when ready for battle (likely a little less without crew and ammo at the base), she did get a slight wound at the Battle of the Beach, and the lightning that she defeated Ares with was called down by Ares himself: Diana caught its power and threw it back at Ares.

But I think the most important thing about Wonder Woman in the movie wasn't what she did, but that it managed to create an empathic, caring, strong superheroine. Who was strong not only in the sense of being physically strong, but strong in morals and in character as well. And perhaps most importantly, made the people around her stronger and better persons.

I'm probably getting my tanks mixed up (just like they did )

Either way, it's at the beginning of her career and she shows no strain whatsoever holding up a 30 ton tank. Point being that it was a feat of strength.

And I did forget about the cut on her arm, which was another dramatic moment - she had never been in an actual fight before, and while others died, she walked away with a cut (not to mention they had to show that she has super healing somehow)

Mainly, Patty highlighted her combat skill over feats until the end combat, which was her very first ever fight against an enhanced human and a god. There's a learning curve, and by the end we got superspeed, durability, strength, shielding, combat skill and lightning control. She walked through Ares final assault like she was strolling through a park, and again, to stress the point, this was at the very start of her career as she learned what a gun was, what fighting for her life was, what a metahuman was, what a god was, what war was, etc.

I'm still gonna wait til WW84 before deciding anything.

[SiegePerilous02]

Most of us watch superheroes in Imax for the spectacle. Character is super important so is power level, CGI, fight choreography.
Ares and Diana are Greek Gods and audience expect them to fight like them.

I doubt the audience went into this with expectations on how they should fight. Good luck getting comic fans to agree on how such a thing should be depicted. The casuals are not gonna care either way to begin with.

Considering how well received the first movie was, it's kind of moot.

Captain Marvel did have scenes that were a bit too heavy-handed for my tastes. Including those you mentioned, there was also the "Give me a smile, baby" or whatever line that the biker said to her (the worst culprit of the movie for me), as well as her fighting some badguys to No Doubt's "Just A Girl." Obviously some fans will love this aspect of the movie, but it was too on-the-nose whereas I felt Wonder Woman's treatment by the generals in the treaty meeting was handled very well.

Yeah, I can't believe I forgot the No Doubt song. That was kind of cringe worthy.
It was also kind of a let down in delivering a strong female antagonist with Minn-Erva and seemingly just killed her off. I don't know much about the character, but it seems like there is some wasted potential there. Dr. Poison didn't receive that much more focus, but I think she at the very least stood out a bit more. I think WW84 can top Captain Marvel by at least showing the first really complex woman vs. woman rivalry. Hopefully.

[kjn]

It was also kind of a let down in delivering a strong female antagonist with Minn-Erva and seemingly just killed her off. I don't know much about the character, but it seems like there is some wasted potential there. Dr. Poison didn't receive that much more focus, but I think she at the very least stood out a bit more. I think WW84 can top Captain Marvel by at least showing the first really complex woman vs. woman rivalry. Hopefully.

My own hope is that WW84 will dig deep into Rucka's take on Diana's and Minerva's relation, and that it was first based on friendship rather than being enemies. Best case is that Cheetah is set up as the antagonist against Diana for the third Wonder Woman movie, with Barbara not becoming Cheetah until the final third of the movie or so.

But there are lots of things that I WW84 can dig into, and I hope Jenkins is smart enough to really dig into one of them, while giving simple nods to the rest (Black Panther suffered badly there, not settling down on any of the major themes it raised). AIDS and the modern queer movement is one, feminism in various forms another.

[SiegePerilous02]

My own hope is that WW84 will dig deep into Rucka's take on Diana's and Minerva's relation, and that it was first based on friendship rather than being enemies. Best case is that Cheetah is set up as the antagonist against Diana for the third Wonder Woman movie, with Barbara not becoming Cheetah until the final third of the movie or so.

But there are lots of things that I WW84 can dig into, and I hope Jenkins is smart enough to really dig into one of them, while giving simple nods to the rest (Black Panther suffered badly there, not settling down on any of the major themes it raised). AIDS and the modern queer movement is one, feminism in various forms another.

Yes, I too hope that the Rucka version is the main influence of their dynamic. Johns is co-writing the script and he was the one who came up with the idea of them being friends, but with Minerva being genuinely evil before hand (or at least being very messed up and dangerous, even if she still considered Diana a "friend", though how genuine she was was kind of vague). But he was also the one to recruit Rucka back for the book, who in turn took Johns' basic idea and overhauled it into something MUCH stronger. Hopefully Geoff can see that, and he and Patty will lean more towards Rebirth than New 52 (or do a mixture of both).

[Jim Kelly]

I don't understand the point of this topic.
Who exactly is Marvel trying to "steal"? There's a huge overlap between people who watch Marvel movies and people who watch DC movies.
The only people they can actually "steal" are the fanboys who need to have a narrow-minded point of view but added together these people don't even make up a fraction of a percent.

Well Wonder Woman has long been the symbol of the woman's movement. She was pictured on the first issue of MS. and Gloria Steinem was a big fan having read the comics as a little girl. It was that that pushed DC to go back to the traditional look of the character in the 1970s. And it was her standing as a feminist symbol that probably helped Wonder Woman regain her fanbase, as well as promote the Lynda Carter TV show.

So when you're talking about Wonder Woman there's a huge fanbase--not just comic book readers. She appeals to feminists, the LGBTQ community and several generations around the world. Her merchandise is a popular seller and when I've been in Rio de Janeiro for Carnival, the Wonder Woman costume has been the most popular that I saw for both genders. By the way, in Brazilian Portuguese Wonder Woman is "Mulher Maravilha" and Captain Marvel is "Capitão Maravilha."

That brand is worth a lot to DC. So if Disney could even get a portion of the market, that would be worth a lot of money to them.

[starlight25]

That's because of the movie. Most of the current WW writers are inspired by the movie rather than her old source material.
Blame lies squarely on Patty.
Even Aquaman has more powerful feats in his movie, lifting Sub, fighting monsters than WW

I don't think so. Patty came in to direct a movie that already had the budget and the script before she was hired. The truth is Wonder Woman has not had a wow moment in what feels like an eternity. And it seems that has become the norm even before her 2017 movie. Maybe others don't have a problem with that, but i do. I mean it's part of Wonder Woman to do amazing stuff. Things that make you feel you are reading extrodinary and powerful adventures from a very powerful brave and cool amazon lady.

[starlight25]

Well Wonder Woman has long been the symbol of the woman's movement. She was pictured on the first issue of MS. and Gloria Steinem was a big fan having read the comics as a little girl. It was that that pushed DC to go back to the traditional look of the character in the 1970s. And it was her standing as a feminist symbol that probably helped Wonder Woman regain her fanbase, as well as promote the Lynda Carter TV show.

So when you're talking about Wonder Woman there's a huge fanbase--not just comic book readers. She appeals to feminists, the LGBTQ community and several generations around the world. Her merchandise is a popular seller and when I've been in Rio de Janeiro for Carnival, the Wonder Woman costume has been the most popular that I saw for both genders. By the way, in Brazilian Portuguese Wonder Woman is "Mulher Maravilha" and Captain Marvel is "Capitão Maravilha."

That brand is worth a lot to DC. So if Disney could even get a portion of the market, that would be worth a lot of money to them.

We'll see. The cm movie had a huge shield protecting it. See the controversy with rotten tomatoes. Sites calling anybody a troll or sexist if you don't like the movie. The woman's day release, the attempts to tie it to end games, etc. But the truth is that outside all of this? It's just a meh movie. With an actress that feels like she is just there, going through the motion. Barely 3 facial expressions the whole movie. Still the same bored and lifeless expression in the endgame trailer. And the fact that the character she plays, is almost like a fascist in the comics based on the way they have been writing her for years doeesn't help either. They have a long way to go before they can talk about carol danvers as a character on Wonder Woman's level.

[Geraldofrivia]

We'll see. The cm movie had a huge shield protecting it. See the controversy with rotten tomatoes. Sites calling anybody a troll or sexist if you don't like the movie. The woman's day release, the attempts to tie it to end games, etc. But the truth is that outside all of this? It's just a meh movie. With an actress that feels like she is just there, going through the motion. Barely 3 facial expressions the whole movie. Still the same bored and lifeless expression in the endgame trailer. And the fact that the character she plays, is almost like a fascist in the comics based on the way they have been writing her for years doeesn't help either. They have a long way to go before they can talk about carol danvers as a character on Wonder Woman's level.

You mean Captain Marvel getting 50000 bad rating in its Thursday premier in Rotten Tomatoes, more rating than Infinity war got an entire year.

This movie got bad rating than Wonder Woman from most mainstream media.


Thor Ragnarok, Antman and wasp are all tied to Endgame too.


Also Wonder Woman have never been victim of Bad writing, Wonder Woman and Amazons the 300 bc barbarians

[Dino Adan]

Except Wonderwoman, Marvel Studios should create another female character. X-Men and Wonderwoman seem lonely women in the story of Marvel. It’s a suggestion to have more appreciation about their production.

[Killerbee911]

Except Wonderwoman, Marvel Studios should create another female character. X-Men and Wonderwoman seem lonely women in the story of Marvel. It’s a suggestion to have more appreciation about their production.

What does that mean? Black Widow is coming. Ms Marvel is coming, Scarlet Witch (and Vision) is coming. Shuri,Okaye,Wasp and Valkyrie have been highlighted in Marvel movies. Heck Marvel even has main character female villains in Hela and Ghost. It is not all doom and gloom. Wonder Woman open the door,Captain Marvel confirmed that hey women characters doing good isn't a fluke. Both companies thankful are doing better that said there is room for improvement

[marhawkman]

You mean Captain Marvel getting 50000 bad rating in its Thursday premier in Rotten Tomatoes, more rating than Infinity war got an entire year.

This movie got bad rating than Wonder Woman from most mainstream media.

I was talking with some guy on another board about this, and it seems like it was probably some sort of spam rating attack on RT.

[Gaelforce]

I was talking with some guy on another board about this, and it seems like it was probably some sort of spam rating attack on RT.

It was confirmed that there was a concerted effort, including bots, to flood RT with 1 star reviews for CM. There were people who just hated the concept of a woman with power and others who latched on to any little thing that Brie Larson said and twisted it to fit their narrative. This small group (as is evident by the box office numbers) tried to boycott the film, constantly tout how Alita>CM and pushed their followers to go see Alita on CM's opening weekend, and now are coming up with all sorts of ridiculous conspiracy theories about Disney buying up tickets or lying about the numbers.

Again, Patty Jenkins and Gal Gadot both support CMs success, and I don't see any reason to consider the two film franchises to be in competition with one another. The comic book market is one thing (finite resources when books are $4 each and monthly or $3 and twice a month), and prior to the reboot to #1 this past January, CM was barely hanging in the top 100 in sales. #1 went above 100K and was number two in sales that month (January) but dropped to 39th (WW was 26th and 27th) with #2.

So in comics, Diana is still more popular, but when it comes to films, there is no reason *not* to see both movies as they have been released two years apart (and we still have a year+ til WW84). It's not like either company is foolish enough to release them opposite one another.