Is Jim Starlin hated by Marvel editors?

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Jim seems to stubbornly think he is the only one who can write Thanos and other cosmic characters. These chracters are owned by Marvel and exist in a shared universe so other writers are going to give their take on these characters and that won't necceserily line up with what Starlin did.

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

[Alan2099]

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

other writers have been able to write Magneto as a villain or decreasing his powers him without Claremont immedialty coming back in and powering him back up and saying it didn't happen.

[KC]

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

It is down to how the individual writers characterize these characters. In a shared universe with multiple writers trying to write these characters, the writers sometimes change the characterization to fit the story they want to tell or because they think their characterization is better. It can and does happen.

[Holt]

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

You must not remember the 90s Jim Lee relaunch.

[XPac]

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

Even with Magneto, there was a degree of flip flopping about his character development goes. Morrisons X-Men run for example.

Ultimately because marvel has so few credible villains, I can actually understand the urge to keep the few credible ones they have from doing full on face turns. If Doom, Magneto, and Thanos were all to become good guys like SOME stories have steered them, we'd have nothing but B list villains for the heroes to face.

I do understand and respect giving villains like Doom or Magneto or Thanos this sort of personal journey that takes them to a different place but ultimately we do still need kick @$$ villains. And in recent decades I think there's been too much of a trend to turn a lot of the better ones into good guys, like Juggernaut or Sandman or Thanos or Doom or Magneto.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

other writers have been able to write Magneto as a villain or decreasing his powers him without Claremont immedialty coming back in and powering him back up and saying it didn't happen.

We are talking about characterisation not feats and power levels.

[Holt]

We are talking about characterisation not feats and power levels.

In fact, the decision to return Magneto to villainy was one of the things that ultimately led to Claremont leaving the franchise in the 90s with the Jim Lee relaunch.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

In fact, the decision to return Magneto to villainy was one of the things that ultimately led to Claremont leaving the franchise in the 90s with the Jim Lee relaunch.

My point was that the thuggish edgelord Thanos of Marvel NOW doesn't feel the same character that got me hooked. Same with Drax, Gamora and Adam Warlock.

[Holt]

My point was that the thuggish edgelord Thanos of Marvel NOW doesn't feel the same character that got me hooked. Same with Drax, Gamora and Adam Warlock.

Yeah, and that happens with any number of characters over the years. That's what happens in serialized fiction when you have dozens, if not hundreds of different creators, some of whom are gonna have different takes.

If anything, the fact that Starlin was previously given free reign to casually dismiss other writers' work on Thanos as non-canon, or the work of a clone, or whatever shows that the company did give him quite a bit of leeway.



Most creators don't just get to casually say "Yeah, all the stuff that I didn't write? That never happened. Only the stuff I personally wrote did!"

[Iron Maiden]

You don't need Starlin's trippy metaphysics to get Thanos right. Have him team up with a group of heroes against a evil cosmic entity and depict Thanos as magnificent bastard strategist

Doom already has that spot taken.

[Iron Maiden]

In fact, the decision to return Magneto to villainy was one of the things that ultimately led to Claremont leaving the franchise in the 90s with the Jim Lee relaunch.

That probably was one of the sore points. But I recall reading elsewhere that on a larger scale, Jim Lee simply wouldn't always draw to fit Claremont's script. Then he would turn in the pages so close to deadline that Claremont was forced into rewriting everything. Then after he got all this control, Lee left Marvel anyway.

[Holt]

That probably was one of the sore points. But I recall reading elsewhere that on a larger scare, Jim Lee simply wouldn't always draw to fit Claremont's script. Then he would turn in the pages so close to deadline that Claremont was forced into rewriting everything. Then after he got all this control, Lee left Marvel anyway.

Yeah. Claremont and Simonson were both getting annoyed with Marvel's editors giving more power to the artists in the 90s when the role of the writer really started getting devalued, thanks to the popularity of people like Lee, McFarlane and Liefeld (who as you mentioned, ironically flipped the bird to Marvel and left to make their own studio anyway).

[Iron Maiden]

Yeah. Claremont and Simonson were both getting annoyed with Marvel's editors giving more power to the artists in the 90s when the role of the writer really started getting devalued, thanks to the popularity of people like Lee, McFarlane and Liefeld (who as you mentioned, ironically flipped the bird to Marvel and left to make their own studio anyway).

Exactly. I lost a bit of respect for Jim Lee when I read the behind the scene stuff about that era. He doesn't come off very well at times. (darn auto correct changed "scale" to "scare" for some reason in my post)

I think Claremont went into an editor role for a while and then he got to write the relaunch of Fantastic Four after Lee's Heroes Reborn ended. Scott Lobdell started out on the first couple of issues with Claremont editing and then he left suddenly when he was offered a job out in LaLa land IIRC. Claremont jumped in and took over and I think his run with Sal Larocca is underrated.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Exactly. I lost a bit of respect for Jim Lee when I read the behind the scene stuff about that era. He doesn't come off very well at times. (darn auto correct changed "scale" to "scare" for some reason in my post)

I think Claremont went into an editor role for a while and then he got to write the relaunch of Fantastic Four after Lee's Heroes Reborn ended. Scott Lobdell started out on the first couple of issues with Claremont editing and then he left suddenly when he was offered a job out in LaLa land IIRC. Claremont jumped in and took over and I think his run with Sal Larocca is underrated.

I swear I'd read some recent interview about Lobdell and his brief stint on the FF - and he flat-out said he was fired because he was late with his stories. Can't find it anywhere, but the closest I did find was this:

http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...irections.html

Claremont was supposed to go back to the X-Men in `97, but Harras felt obligated to have Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle stay on the books (as they'd just gotten them).
Lobdell quits/fired/whatever on the FF and CC gets the FF out of "WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO???"

I loved the Claremont run. It was refreshing to read his stuff outside the norm at Marvel -- aka tied down to a mutant book. He was just getting into some good stuff when he left for X-Treme X-Men.

[Zero Hunter]

Thing is, Marvel has always been respectful of Magneto's character development given to him by Chris Claremont, why can't do the same with Thanos?

I don't think Morrison's run showed any respect for Magneto. He wanted the old Magneto back and he just did it. He turned him into the opposite of what Claremont had made him and then killed him in the end.