Is Jim Starlin hated by Marvel editors?

[ARkadelphia]

No ‘coptor, no Thanos

[Steel Inquisitor]

You think Bendis hated previous Marvel writers?
The guy was writing at Marvel for quite some years. It’s very disrespectful to assume he had anything but respect for previous writers.
His continuity/characterisations come from his own writing and preferences. It’s evident from some of the stories he told he liked the history.

Continuity isn't Bendis story suit. It works in universes like Ultimate, but it goes to and places outside of it when he doesn't follow canon. Characters have had consequences for writing like that, like Scarlet Witch. Had he read Busiek's Avengers he'd know that's all wrapped up and it wasn't in character for her. She'd been on ice for years became of that and hasn't had a champion at Marvel until very recently to give her a solo series. The thing is Bendis does follow continuity when he respects the material, like in Daredevil. He can do it and he's a very talented writer.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Continuity isn't Bendis story suit. It works in universes like Ultimate, but it goes to and places outside of it when he doesn't follow canon. Characters have had consequences for writing like that, like Scarlet Witch. Had he read Busiek's Avengers he'd know that's all wrapped up and it wasn't in character for her. She'd been on ice for years became of that and hasn't had a champion at Marvel until very recently to give her a solo series. The thing is Bendis does follow continuity when he respects the material, like in Daredevil. He can do it and he's a very talented writer.

''No more Bendis.''

Actually John Byrne was the first to introduce the idea of Wanda being a reality warper with mental issues. Bendis made it dumber.

[GenericUsername]

''No more Bendis.''

Actually John Byrne was the first to introduce the idea of Wanda being a reality warper with mental issues. Bendis made it dumber.

John Byrne wasn't the first to make her a reality warper. That was technically Busiek. But it had definite limits. And built on her link to Chthon from the 70s. Byrne did the 'baby crazy' thing first.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

John Byrne wasn't the first to make her a reality warper. That was technically Busiek. But it had definite limits. And built on her link to Chthon from the 70s. Byrne did the 'baby crazy' thing first.

Wanda was truly dreamy under Busiek and Pérez.

[your_name_here]

Bendis in the 2000s really was trying to push Marvel into the “new” modern stage of comics. Some things stuck the landing, others didn’t. I don’t disagree that characters can suffer from his writing. But I do disagree with notion that he somehow “didn’t like” previous writers. A bad idea or take on a story/character can just be that. The man wrote at marvel for years, I just find it rude to assume he “doesn’t like” previous writers.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Did Adam Warlock suffered from being tied with one or two writers?

So obviously, not counting when he was "Him" (from the classic FF story with alicia in a cult) nor the episode when Him comes back to fight Thor in Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's run (although this one is more significant since that's when Thor goes into Warrior Madness mode for the first time, which leads to Odin condemning him to find the origin of galactus, and all that jazz: plus if you don't know that Thor first got warrior's madness fighting Him, then you can't fully enjoy the cheesy Blood and thunder storyline from 1994).

So starting with the strange tales issues where he was first called warlock, warlock has only been written, up to the mid 2000's, by two writers: roy thomas, for the first saga on counter earth, and Jim starlin.

Warlock should be at least a B+ list character: he's the main character of his own series (warlock, and later warlock and the infinity watch), and of so many crosovers: Blood and thunder, infinity gauntlet, Infinity war, infinity crusade and infinity abyss, plus Universe X and Paradise X. And YET, we can all agree, he's considered C-list at best. He doesn't even have an ongoing, and freaking Squirrel Girl got multiple ones.

So what's the problem? Obviously, the character has importance in the MU, but it seems like no one knows what to do with him or doesn't care: is he because he was only written by two people, and therefore there isn't much divergent point of view around him (i mean, i know he was written by abnett and lanning in their GOTG stories, and Duggan in Infinity Wars, but in very minor roles) ? What blocks him from truly being close to A-list? Is he too powerful? too linked to one genre of story? too linked to the very surreal and convuluted Starlin-verse?

BTW i liked the DnA version of Adam Warlock as the Merlin to Star-Lord's King Arthur.

Too bad they screwed up by turning him into Magus and killed him off quickly. That's another reason why Starlin's OGN trilogy was needed, because Warlock deserves a better sendoff than that.

[Kurt Busiek]

John Byrne wasn't the first to make her a reality warper. That was technically Busiek. But it had definite limits. And built on her link to Chthon from the 70s. Byrne did the 'baby crazy' thing first.

Uh, John did the "reality warper" around the same time as he did the "baby crazy," long before I did my story.

I wasn't actually saying she was a reality warper so much as a wielder of chaos magic, which could do some pretty sweeping things.

kdb

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Uh, John did the "reality warper" around the same time as he did the "baby crazy," long before I did my story.

I wasn't actually saying she was a reality warper so much as a wielder of chaos magic, which could do some pretty sweeping things.

kdb

Holey Moley! Busiek himself! I'm a big fan of your Avengers run and the crossover with the JLA Mr.Busiek. Thanks for all the wonderful stories.

[Malachi]

I believe one of the reasons inifity gauntlet worked so well and other Thanos stories hasn't is the clear limits of the characters. Starlin was to some extent helped by the fact that he created much of how cosmic marvel works. Characters have parts to play but in the end Thanos operates at such a level that it takes Adam warlock to bring him down.

It's both the brilliance and the pitfall of the stories. Tie them to much together and it becomes predictable, to little and you get the mess we have now.

The scene with Caotain America defying a allmighty Thanos is iconic but it's also brilliant because it oushes that confrotation to the max for CA. Thanos shouldn't be in fights with CA. Dependong on the Avengers team he really shouldn't be an Avengers enemy. His importance is lost by throwing out the rules Starlin so carefully laid.

Marvel and Thanos are all the better for having him operate on a scale that requires massive intervention when it goes bad. Something it shouldn't allways do. A Thanis stuck in perpetual planet killer mode cheapens him and the conflict he brings.

I like what Ron Marz did in Powers Cosmic. He brought Thanos into the play while also showing where he fits in.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Uh, John did the "reality warper" around the same time as he did the "baby crazy," long before I did my story.

I wasn't actually saying she was a reality warper so much as a wielder of chaos magic, which could do some pretty sweeping things.

kdb

Didn't you also establish that she was an energy manipulator?

Shame that's since been ignored.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

I believe one of the reasons inifity gauntlet worked so well and other Thanos stories hasn't is the clear limits of the characters. Starlin was to some extent helped by the fact that he created much of how cosmic marvel works. Characters have parts to play but in the end Thanos operates at such a level that it takes Adam warlock to bring him down.

It's both the brilliance and the pitfall of the stories. Tie them to much together and it becomes predictable, to little and you get the mess we have now.

The scene with Caotain America defying a allmighty Thanos is iconic but it's also brilliant because it oushes that confrotation to the max for CA. Thanos shouldn't be in fights with CA. Dependong on the Avengers team he really shouldn't be an Avengers enemy. His importance is lost by throwing out the rules Starlin so carefully laid.

Marvel and Thanos are all the better for having him operate on a scale that requires massive intervention when it goes bad. Something it shouldn't allways do. A Thanis stuck in perpetual planet killer mode cheapens him and the conflict he brings.

I like what Ron Marz did in Powers Cosmic. He brought Thanos into the play while also showing where he fits in.

Completely agree. Thanos Is not an Avengers antagonist, he's a Adam Warlock antagonist/friend. (It's complicated).

He shouldn't be hurt by the likes of Carol Danvers or the Thing or any street level character. Unless they are amped by some macguffin.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Completely agree. Thanos Is not an Avengers antagonist, he's a Adam Warlock antagonist/friend. (It's complicated).

He shouldn't be hurt by the likes of Carol Danvers or the Thing or any street level character. Unless they are amped by some macguffin.

Well, no one gives a damn about Adam Warlock/Non Jesus anymore, so characters have to grow

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Well, no one gives a damn about Adam Warlock/Non Jesus anymore, so characters have to grow

Thanos got to grow under Starlin after Gauntlet. He gave up on pseudo nihilism and trying to get Death to love him and became a reclusive farmer and pilgrim.

Also me and quite a few people still care about Adam and his existenzialism. Jim Starlin's Warlock from the seventies is still one of my favorite Marvel comics.

It's a real pity you have a genuine hatred for Starlin stories because without those, we wouldn't have a cosmic side in the Marvel multiverse or maybe even the MCU.

I'm really starting to dislike you.

If you don't like the subject matter of a thread, don't comment.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Thanos got to grow under Starlin after Gauntlet. He gave up on pseudo nihilism and trying to get Death to love him and became a reclusive farmer and pilgrim.

Also me and quite a few people still care about Adam and his existenzialism. Jim Starlin's Warlock from the seventies is still one of my favorite Marvel comics.

It's a real pity you have a genuine hatred for Starlin stories because without those, we wouldn't have a cosmic side in the Marvel multiverse or maybe even the MCU.

I have a dislike for writers who dump on other characters to make theirs look better. And its annoying when a writer can't let go of their character.

Starlin does both.

Frankly, since Infinity Gauntlet, the only growth Thanos really got was making the other heroes look like chumps. Starlin's Thanos should have stayed in the 70s. Or failing that, be developed into a more interesting villain. Neither has happened. Instead, he's still riding the coattails of Infinity Gauntlet, pretending to be relevant.

Don't get me wrong, at the time, I loved Infinity Gauntlet. But as time has passed, I've seen the flaws in the writing, and I've see what's come after.

Note that in the MCU, we got a largely different Thanos, with a goal that made him more engaging than 'bang an abstract concept'.

And really, that's what Thanos needs. Starlin's Thanos lacks/ed an interesting, compelling motivation. Except, it seems, to lecture everyone around him and look down on them. Like lecturing Galactus about destruction, despite, ya know, killing half the universe. That was is poorly written, Starlin probably could have kept the book had he not gone online about the USA parable.

After a while, writers run out of things to say. They repeat themselves, or try to return to old glory. IMO, Starlin should have left Thanos after Infinity Gauntlet. Someone new ought to take the reigns with Thanos, though I will admit that I'm not sure who. Peter David's take was pretty good, if only the one appearance