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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Should The Outsiders Be Always Associated With The Batman Franchise?

    Pros

    1. There is historical precedent for this. Their first iteration was founded by Batman and their first title was "Batman and the Outsiders."

    2. This would give The Outsiders brand an advantage in terms of sales.

    3. The title could be reworked into a Batfamily book, which would, much like Tynion's Detective, become a fan favorite for shining a spotlight on neglected Batfamily members

    Cons

    1. The Bat brand is overexposed.

    2. The Outsiders would be overshadowed by Batman or some other high profile Bat-Member on the team.

  2. #2
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    For what its worth if anything, I liked Nightwing and The Outsiders

  3. #3
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    The team doesn't really have a 'core identity' besides Batman's team. The outcast thing is done way better in Doom Patrol and there are multiple spy/special ops team already operating in the DCU. Unless someone comes up with something better, that's what the team is about.

    They've tried giving the team to other characters though but with mixed results. With Nightwing, it just turns into another Titans Redux. With Green Arrow, it wasn't even the Outsiders, just an excuse to use the name plus include Katana and giving him the team only makes him Batman-lite when he could be so much more. With Tim Drake, well, he's too young and he's more closely associated with Young Justice and the 4th gen heroes, unless you drastically change the roster you would have full grown adults like Black Lightning and Katana taking orders from a kid. They gave the team to Alfred but thats not viable for long term.


  4. #4
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    I always preferred the Outsiders being characters who operated on a more classified level and had a lower profile than the Justice League. Batman having a network of underground heroes is cool and I think you can really do anything with that concept without having to really involve Batman. However the idea that they have to be outcasts and actual "outsiders" as opposed to my definition, heroes working outside the Justice League parameters, gets worn out quickly.
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  5. #5
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    I think the big problem is that the Outsiders simply lack the "star power" to sustain a book on their own.

    Without a connection to Batman they probably need something else to generate interest and sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The team doesn't really have a 'core identity' besides Batman's team. The outcast thing is done way better in Doom Patrol and there are multiple spy/special ops team already operating in the DCU. Unless someone comes up with something better, that's what the team is about.
    The thing is that at least in it's original incarnation the the team never really did much special ops and spy stuff, and the majority of the classic members is not even particularly skilled in stuff like that. And the Outcast thing does also not work that well, since apart from Metamorpho all of the member were relativity normal humans. One was even a Prince of a small european nation and another was a former olympic athlete and school teacher.

    For me a general problem of that book is, that the iconic members are just a really poor fit for the their mission statement.
    Last edited by Aahz; 04-13-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Rather than the anti-social jerk that is Batman (whom is incredibly spread out anyway), perhaps Nightwing would lead them?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Rather than the anti-social jerk that is Batman (whom is incredibly spread out anyway), perhaps Nightwing would lead them?
    I think a Nightwing-led Outsiders would be a pretty perfect ticket. BUT it would have to be composed of characters who are not new creator-owned vehicles; otherwise, the "creator" concentrates solely on his new toys and ignores what's driving the sales. The Nightwing and Outsiders book was a good idea, but the writer would just stick Nightwing on the cover and he was hardly in the book at all. A Nightwing and the Outsiders book would have to be like Red Hood and the Outlaws--strictly a support system/surrogate family for Nightwing.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I think the big problem is that the Outsiders simply lack the "star power" to sustain a book on their own.

    Without a connection to Batman they probably need something else to generate interest and sales.

    The thing is that at least in it's original incarnation the the team never really did much special ops and spy stuff, and the majority of the classic members is not even particularly skilled in stuff like that. And the Outcast thing does also not work that well, since apart from Metamorpho all of the member were relativity normal humans. One was even a Prince of a small european nation and another was a former olympic athlete and school teacher.

    For me a general problem of that book is, that the iconic members are just a really poor fit for the their mission statement.
    In Barr/Aparo run, yes they were more about being outcasts but the Dixon and Tomasi incarnations of the team were more about special ops/espionage angle.

    I do support the idea of a more street level version of the team. I played around with the idea at some point. It looks like DC has decided to follow a similar route as well. I like the idea of making them essentially the Defenders equivalent of the DCU.

    The problem with making it into Nightwing's team, at least in my pov, is that it ends up feeling like Titans 2.0. Dick should all about being his own man and not following in daddy's foot steps.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I think a Nightwing-led Outsiders would be a pretty perfect ticket. BUT it would have to be composed of characters who are not new creator-owned vehicles; otherwise, the "creator" concentrates solely on his new toys and ignores what's driving the sales. The Nightwing and Outsiders book was a good idea, but the writer would just stick Nightwing on the cover and he was hardly in the book at all. A Nightwing and the Outsiders book would have to be like Red Hood and the Outlaws--strictly a support system/surrogate family for Nightwing.
    That won't happen.

    Even in "Batman and the Outsiders", they will likely use Batman to get sales, but it will probably focus more on the other characters.

  10. #10
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    For the overall origin of the team...I would say that Batman is needed, but outside the first two or three adventures...no as Batman would trust them enough to back off and form on their own as team.

  11. #11
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Always? No, DC doesn't need every property to orbit Batman or some other "bigger" character; some things need to able to stand on their own. Batman is part of their origin, sure, but the Outsiders should be allowed to exist as it's own entity within the DC lexicon.
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  12. #12
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Should or could.

  13. #13
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    I've always been into the idea of Batman asking Catwoman, and Black Lightning to run a special ops team in the shadows. We've seen Lightning take on a leadership role in the past, but I think this could be something new, and very interesting for Selena to lead a team. She definitely has the covert skills, and we'd get to see her utilize her underground connections.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Always? No, DC doesn't need every property to orbit Batman or some other "bigger" character; some things need to able to stand on their own. Batman is part of their origin, sure, but the Outsiders should be allowed to exist as it's own entity within the DC lexicon.
    The thing is that Outsiders can have problems to survive without Batman, especially in the current market.

    Good quality won't guarantee that the comic survive.

  15. #15
    Son of Satan DevilBat66's Avatar
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    If The Outsiders doesn't have Batman for a lead, it should have Green Arrow.
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