Great Potential ..... Awful Execution

[married guy]

Where's Beau Smith when you need him??

I nominate B'Wana Beast!

I would give my right nut to read a book with the character written by Beau.

Same goes for the Namor - The Sub Mariner. Cool character, but MAN has he been wasted for a long time.
You know you have issues when Aquaman has more cred than you - and that was BEFORE the movie!!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I did read what you wrote



You pretty much present the majority of this comment as a fact. You do say you like the Gal Gadot and Lynda Carter versions but you're not exactly quick to point out the rest is just your opinion.

Did you read this? Because it's the first thing I posted: "I know this might not be too popular an opinion, but Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman."

I'm sorry if you misunderstood me, but the very word interesting is a subjective one, so I didn't think I'd need to further qualify it as an opinion because that should be self-evident. What's interesting to one person might not be to someone else. Feel free to disagree with my opinions all you want, but to state I was giving my opinion as fact is simply not true.

[ed2962]

Donna Troy

Marv Wolfman and George Perez showed her amazing potential in The New Teen Titans. She was a beautiful, sweet, strong, intelligent super hero. But since COIE, she's been jerked around more than almost any hero in the DC Universe. I don't even remember how many different origins they have tried with her, not to mention the personality changes.

She's completely unrecognizable in recent years.

Hawkman: I have the most messed up history in DC.

Donna Troy: Hold my beer.

[ed2962]

How about the new Young Justice comic? There's nothing wrong with the characters or the plot, but Bendis's pacing and scene jumping is taking me out of what should be a straight forward action adventure story.

[jetengine]

I think the initial set up for Parralax was rough but the end result was really interesting. At least before space-bug.

DC doesn't really have a Magneto esque Anti-villain whom does 'Bad things for the right reasons' save occasionally Black Adam (depending on who's writing him) nor do they have one so closely tied to the League. The idea of The League going to stop a Thanagar/Tamaran war only for it to be brutally crushed by Hal whom is taking a more pro-active stance then the Guardians ever did whilst also maneuvering himself into a position for more control or power is very very interesting and full of great character moments. He's a man who's been fighting for so damn long and seen everything they do fail utterly, he's the best of the best and feels he KNOWS best. So why shouldn't he fix the universe ?

[king81992]

How about the new Young Justice comic? There's nothing wrong with the characters or the plot, but Bendis's pacing and scene jumping is taking me out of what should be a straight forward action adventure story.

I like it. It's probably the best thing Bendis has written in years. Hopefully he can reverse the years of character derailment that screwed over the YJ cast.

[The Darknight Detective]

I would go with that as well... and that's speaking as a MASSIVE Hal Jordan fan. Having a story where Hal Jordan gets tired of the Guardians and turns against them... becoming as powerful as they are... Has SERIOUS potential. But ET was just written... BAD...

Too fast a turn from loyal soldier to utter evil... too many retcons on how the rings work... Killing Kilowog was a bridge too far... It just wasn't good. There's merit in the idea, but ehhhh… it didn't work.

It could have taken a half of a century and it would still have been too fast. Any long-time superhero or any good guy/gal character with a loyal fan base should never have to be subjected to being turned into a villain overnight like a wrestler from the WWF. For anybody who disagrees with that, a character you like like a lot might be given the "honor" at some point in the future instead.

[Ascended]

I would go with that as well... and that's speaking as a MASSIVE Hal Jordan fan. Having a story where Hal Jordan gets tired of the Guardians and turns against them... becoming as powerful as they are... Has SERIOUS potential. But ET was just written... BAD...

I loved the idea of someone that well connected in the hero community breaking bad. I mean, Hal knows *everything!* He knows the secret handshakes and passwords, he knows the power limits, the weaknesses, he knows the secret identities and the love interests and the addresses......a hero of Hal's caliber going evil is utterly terrifying! And the emotional drama, the sense of betrayal on all sides? How does someone like Ollie or Barry (if he had been alive) deal with that? Even someone Hal wasn't close to, like Clark, that's still going to hurt, yknow? And what about the young heroes who're looking to the older generations for inspiration and guidance? Hal going evil, how does that screw with young minds who had thought that GL was just the coolest space cowboy to ever fly?

There was so much potential there. And other than a couple arcs by Marz, none of it was ever really touched upon. Such a waste.

[Ascended]

It could have taken a half of a century and it would still have been too fast. Any long-time superhero or any good guy/gal character with a loyal fan base should never have to be subjected to being turned into a villain overnight like a wrestler from the WWF. For anybody who disagrees with that, a character you like like a lot might be given the "honor" at some point in the future instead.

If good stories come of it, and it can be done in a way that doesn't totally break the character and franchise?

Okay. Sure, I'll see where it goes.

In Hal's case, he was middle management on Oa. The bosses hated him, he was never going to move up in the company, and he often could barely keep his job anyway, getting fired or quitting, then going back. He couldn't keep his personal life together in any serious way. Hal just went postal, but on a cosmic scale. A lot of people stuck in careers they love but jobs they hate can relate to that. And Hal's goals never changed, he was still trying to make the universe a better, more peaceful place. He just became comfortable with new methods of getting there. Emerald Twilight was not a good story and Hal's fall was not done well. But it *could* have been, and it could have left Hal just as entertaining and sympathetic as he ever had been, but with new facets to explore too.

Now, Hal's not my favorite (I dont even like the guy, really) so I'll consider Superman. I love Superman more than most things in life. I love the ideal, and the message, of Superman. Would I support Clark going evil? I won't lie, it'd be a really hard sell. And DC rarely (like, never) shows the skill and talent I'd require out of it. But there *is* a path to a compromised Superman that I would read and support. It's a narrow path sure, but it's there. If it could be done in a way that was honest, that built upon what was there, that felt organic......yeah, I *could* be down for it. I enjoyed the Dominus era where Clark took over the world and I could maybe accept a similar slide into (benign by intention if not in effect) tyranny. As much as I love the idea and ideal of Superman there's a lot to be said, a lot of commentary to be made, in exploring what happens when that ideal becomes tarnished. And if Clark fell, Jon or Conner or Kara would pick up the mantle, so the pure ideal I love wouldn't be necessarily be lost. Seen from a different perspective, but not gone.

DC doesnt have the talent to pull it off, and likely never will. But I *could* accept "evil" Superman.......if done just right.

[stargazer01]

If good stories come of it, and it can be done in a way that doesn't totally break the character and franchise?

Okay. Sure, I'll see where it goes.

In Hal's case, he was middle management on Oa. The bosses hated him, he was never going to move up in the company, and he often could barely keep his job anyway, getting fired or quitting, then going back. He couldn't keep his personal life together in any serious way. Hal just went postal, but on a cosmic scale. A lot of people stuck in careers they love but jobs they hate can relate to that. And Hal's goals never changed, he was still trying to make the universe a better, more peaceful place. He just became comfortable with new methods of getting there. Emerald Twilight was not a good story and Hal's fall was not done well. But it *could* have been, and it could have left Hal just as entertaining and sympathetic as he ever had been, but with new facets to explore too.

Now, Hal's not my favorite (I dont even like the guy, really) so I'll consider Superman. I love Superman more than most things in life. I love the ideal, and the message, of Superman. Would I support Clark going evil? I won't lie, it'd be a really hard sell. And DC rarely (like, never) shows the skill and talent I'd require out of it. But there *is* a path to a compromised Superman that I would read and support. It's a narrow path sure, but it's there. If it could be done in a way that was honest, that built upon what was there, that felt organic......yeah, I *could* be down for it. I enjoyed the Dominus era where Clark took over the world and I could maybe accept a similar slide into (benign by intention if not in effect) tyranny. As much as I love the idea and ideal of Superman there's a lot to be said, a lot of commentary to be made, in exploring what happens when that ideal becomes tarnished. And if Clark fell, Jon or Conner or Kara would pick up the mantle, so the pure ideal I love wouldn't be necessarily be lost. Seen from a different perspective, but not gone.

DC doesnt have the talent to pull it off, and likely never will. But I *could* accept "evil" Superman.......if done just right.

I don't think I could accept an evil Superman in the prime universe. Just can't. I see him as someone so good and pure and incorruptible. Yes, you could break his heart and make his life miserable for a while, but he overcomes it somehow because he's Superman, the greatest hero ever existed.

But I *could* accept a Superman elseworld story in which he becomes a tyrant or sorts. Not exactly evil, but someone who is so disappointed in the human race that he snaps. And he takes over the world and tells us how to live. It could be a very interesting story IF done well. Big if. The writing should be firing in all cylinders and become the best story of the decade. But like you, I don't think DC can pull it off, sadly.

[The Darknight Detective]

If good stories come of it, and it can be done in a way that doesn't totally break the character and franchise?

Okay. Sure, I'll see where it goes.

In Hal's case, he was middle management on Oa. The bosses hated him, he was never going to move up in the company, and he often could barely keep his job anyway, getting fired or quitting, then going back. He couldn't keep his personal life together in any serious way. Hal just went postal, but on a cosmic scale. A lot of people stuck in careers they love but jobs they hate can relate to that. And Hal's goals never changed, he was still trying to make the universe a better, more peaceful place. He just became comfortable with new methods of getting there. Emerald Twilight was not a good story and Hal's fall was not done well. But it *could* have been, and it could have left Hal just as entertaining and sympathetic as he ever had been, but with new facets to explore too.

Now, Hal's not my favorite (I dont even like the guy, really) so I'll consider Superman. I love Superman more than most things in life. I love the ideal, and the message, of Superman. Would I support Clark going evil? I won't lie, it'd be a really hard sell. And DC rarely (like, never) shows the skill and talent I'd require out of it. But there *is* a path to a compromised Superman that I would read and support. It's a narrow path sure, but it's there. If it could be done in a way that was honest, that built upon what was there, that felt organic......yeah, I *could* be down for it. I enjoyed the Dominus era where Clark took over the world and I could maybe accept a similar slide into (benign by intention if not in effect) tyranny. As much as I love the idea and ideal of Superman there's a lot to be said, a lot of commentary to be made, in exploring what happens when that ideal becomes tarnished. And if Clark fell, Jon or Conner or Kara would pick up the mantle, so the pure ideal I love wouldn't be necessarily be lost. Seen from a different perspective, but not gone.

DC doesnt have the talent to pull it off, and likely never will. But I *could* accept "evil" Superman.......if done just right.

IMO, the only way it would be acceptable to me is if the character in question was under the control of something or somebody. Otherwise, regardless of the creator, it would be ludicrous. If DC wants to use a different character, just retire or even kill off the other one instead. At least I could buy that.

[The Darknight Detective]

But I *could* accept a Superman elseworld story in which he becomes a tyrant or sorts. Not exactly evil, but someone who is so disappointed in the human race that he snaps. And he takes over the world and tells us how to live. It could be a very interesting story IF done well. Big if. The writing should be firing in all cylinders and become the best story of the decade. But like you, I don't think DC can pull it off, sadly.

Elseworld stories are a totally different ball of wax for me. Virtually anything is possible and acceptable under that umbrella.

[Lightning Rider]

Frankly, the only time Wonder Woman herself has really worked for me has been when there's a real-life flesh and blood actress there like Gal Gadot or Lynda Carter there to fill in the blanks with their own humanity.

This is such an interesting point.

[Zero Hunter]

Where's Beau Smith when you need him??

I nominate B'Wana Beast!

I would give my right nut to read a book with the character written by Beau.

Man I miss Beau Smith.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This is such an interesting point.

To be fair, the same could be said for what Christopher Reeve did with Superman, who managed to elevate even the crummy scripts he was given in the later films, much like Lynda Carter was able to do during the admit-ably pretty silly Wonder Woman TV show. Same goes for George Reeves.