Superman issue #9 Spoiler discussion

[Badou]

What a disaster of an issue. All this does is hammer home how little Bendis understood Jon's character and what made people like him. Also it is amazing how quickly Bendis is doing whatever he wants with continuity like with the Crime Syndicate. I can't wrap my head around it, and then there is that small Jimmy and Talia thing that Bendis is pushing for some bizarre reason. It is all such a mess that it is a bit much to take in.

[Sacred Knight]

What has Jon done here that is at all against his previous characterization? What is Bendis misunderstanding specifically? I'm genuinely asking, to me what I read was the same kid everyone else has been writing since Rebirth. Is it the slang in his speech or something, thus his voice that throws you? From the contents of the book, he bravely endured being imprisoned for some time by a maniac, used his wits and brain to find a way to eventually break free, and then traveled, helping various individuals along the way as he could, this strange Earth trying to find a way home. To me that seems generally on-point to the son of Superman that everyone else has been working with. Only difference is he's by himself completely on this particular journey. Furthermore as Superlad points out a lot, these challenges which are pretty extreme haven't made him dark, brooding, or evil. I have a hard time seeing how that message is bad and against past characterization. If this were used as an excuse to turn him into Jason Todd or something, okay. But that doesn't seem to be what's going on here at all. Rather completely the opposite that despite of what was thrown at him, he retains everything Superman and Lois taught him.

[Kuwagaton]

It feels like the Son of Superman (a true Superman Jr. where Kon was his own beast) finally played straight was discarded for some fleeting idea. That Bendis has a reputation for willy nilly shock moves that he doesn't fortify made it kinda critical that he didn't give such a clear impression of doing that here. Teenage road warrior Jon is pretty 90s X-Men... I mean, the comparison between Jor and Xavier checks out.

I personally wouldn't mind it, if he was more invested in using dialogue to carry his plots than he seems to be now. The lack of heavy lifting now is probably gonna just bite everyone later.

[Superlad93]

It feels like the Son of Superman (a true Superman Jr. where Kon was his own beast) finally played straight was discarded for some fleeting idea.

Coming away with different reads continues to be fascinating, because I thought the total opposite. I thought that even while Bendis was going so big and out there, he would go out of his way to establish a firm link to a classic part of Superman's lore from the comics or the movies, or just Superman himself. He has Jon go all Superman: The Movie by having him train with Jor-El and learn about the galaxy. He has multiple characters call Jon "Young Superman" or "Son of Superman." He even has Ultraman comment on how they are parallels between Jon crash landing in a place where he could grow to his potential similar to his father. Ultraman keeping Jon alive (even feeding him) and opening up to him seemed to hint at the inherent father/son bond Jon shares with his dad (also directly brought up by Ultraman) Then as Dispenser of Truth pointed out, Jon's final moment of triumph and leap into manhood is encapsulated with an Action Comics issue #1 homage. And to top it all off Jon is proud of himself because he felt he got out of there using his brains and brawn the way his mom and dad would have. He attributes the successes to himself, yes, but also to them and the life skills they imparted onto him.

From what I was reading, Jon's journey was "Superman Jr." as f#%k.

Like literally every other writer Bendis has what he enjoyed in his formative years leak through here and there (like the X-Men stuff he isn't even hiding), but he never turns it into those books. Jon's feeling of alienation don't find their root in just his odd genetics (like an X-Men), but rather specifically if he can ever hope to be good enough to live up to what his dad means to people. That is, for the first time in Jon's lifespan, having the character voice his thoughts and feeling on the idea in any meaningful way.

And as Jon continues to tell his story I find more in common with Greek myths, epic poems, and even young adult novels than I do 90s comics. As a really big fan of Jon Kent since he put on the cape, I kind of appreciate him building a lore that, while informed by his father's myth and continuity, is all his own. That's why maybe more than ever I'm down for a solo book chronicling these adventures in greater detail.

If you mean "Superman Jr." in the sense that he's just a smaller version of Clark, then yeah, I think that was actively done away with to shape a more specific character. But this is totally "Superman Jr." in the sense of Jon still 100% saying "I'm the actual Son of Superman, and I'm gonna live up to all that means."

[Vordan]

Yeah Jon has not been edgy, or angst, or angry at all. He’s not mad that his dad didn’t come to rescue him. He still choose to help people even though on Earth 3 that mindset is punished. He’s just... older now. Far from teenage brooding he seems pretty at peace with himself and his choices.

[RudHao]

What happened to Earth 3 being destroyed by Anti Monitor?

[Artemisfanboy]

This is an extremely good point that totally flew over my head, but you're right. That movement is 100% Action Comics #1. You break it down perfectly, and all I can add is the fact that I love the idea that on a basic primal level--when he's just had it--Jon emulates that instinctively. Bendis having Jon's moment of manhood manifest as a primal callback Action #1 just elevates that moment for me.



No worries, man, I get you. Me and Yoda have this theory that Bendis is setting up these flashbacks as almost a "backdoor pilot"/proof of concept for a "Jon Kent: Lost Years" book under Wonder Comics. Likely limited run format as is the norm for WC books that aren't Young Justice. 4 to 6 issue run per "season" that allows for natural cliffhangers like Naomi. And with how relatively well received this issue seems to be, and the general longing that fans have for kid Jon, I think there's a market for it.

They would totally have to homage this cover for issue 1 though https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erboy_v1_1.jpg. Non negotiable!

And speaking more directly about my feelings on the amount of time he specifically spent in the volcano? Going off what Bendis said about Jon's puberty being a "trial by fire" and what my gut tells me, I'd say he spent about a year in there, and some months traveling Earth-3 (Jon says "in my travels"). It reminded me of the young adult book, The Hatchet. I'd say by the time he tries to escape via the Crime Syndicate's Hall he's about 15 going on 16. I have to imagine Jon doesn't stop off at a store on Earth-0 to grab a super suit, so he likely gets out of Earth-3 (like escaping the underworld in a myth) still in space and makes his way through space having a few more adventures, flying and hitchhiking his way back home.

There's a rather obvious hole in you math here. Jon was 10-11 when he left with Jor-el. 10-11+1 year and a couple of months does not add up to 15-16.

What happened to Earth 3 being destroyed by Anti Monitor?

I'm fairly certain they've time traveled to Earth three before it was destroyed. I suppose you could use that to figure out when the latest departure time Jon could have is because he has to leave before Anti-Monitor shows up and and the crime syndicate flee into their appearances in forever evil. So for all the complaining about I've seen about the crime syndicate being alive, I don't get it.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I'm fairly certain they've time traveled to Earth three before it was destroyed. I suppose you could use that to figure out when the latest departure time Jon could have is because he has to leave before Anti-Monitor shows up and and the crime syndicate flee into their appearances in forever evil. So for all the complaining about I've seen about the crime syndicate being alive, I don't get it.

Still continuity stuff though, in that Ultraman references having battled Superman more than once, which definitely wasn't the case in the New 52. Maybe Reborn altered some stuff, maybe the World Forger recreated Earth 3 post-Metal, or maybe that Justice League run was total ass and ignoring it is simply a good idea there's no reason not to go along with.

[Superlad93]

There's a rather obvious hole in you math here. Jon was 10-11 when he left with Jor-el. 10-11+1 year and a couple of months does not add up to 15-16.

Oh yeah, for sure, and it's not like profess to know anything without any doubt, but my guesses are either Jon actually did spend years with his grandfather in space (he says it could've been years), then the year on Earth 3 and the year coming back home after earth 3. Or he did actually spend years on Earth 3 as the bulk of it, and then some weeks or months getting back home once he left Earth 3.

If fine with any of those variations to be honest. All the more reason hope for a book chronicling these adventures to be in the works. And before you say, it's totally fine if you don't want any part of a book like that because you're not interested in this Jon Kent. I get that, and it's cool.

[Dicer]

I'm just very confused by this entire story.
Because Earth 3 and the entire Crime Syndicate are supposed to be dead, and while this could be a time travel plot, Ultra Man mentions fighting Superman before and unless I'm misremembering(and I probably am) wasn't coming to prime earth after Earth 3's destruction the first time they met their counterparts?

[Superlad93]

I'm just very confused by this entire story.
Because Earth 3 and the entire Crime Syndicate are supposed to be dead, and while this could be a time travel plot, Ultra Man mentions fighting Superman before and unless I'm misremembering(and I probably am) wasn't coming to prime earth after Earth 3's destruction the first time they met their counterparts?

Basically the "simplest" explanation is that Darkseid War, while still in continuity, was published in 2016, and Superman Reborn, the continuity altering Superman event that integrated our Super family into the DCU and rewrote whole swaths of continuity, was published in 2017. Superman Reborn would do things like make it so the Truth storyline (a story where Superman gets outed as Clark by Lois) still happened but didn't go into detail how. It even added 10 years onto the DCU timeline (before that it worked under a 5 year time line from the emergence of Superman as the first public hero) thus adding in a lot of post and pre-crisis continuity aka just overall more history between all of the characters.

Then Dark Nights Metal happened and the Justice League literally rewrote creation via their subconscious, and that has lead to the inclusion of a lot of things into DC continuity. So in short: DC continuity got rewritten more than once and that allows more than enough wiggle room to say that the multiverse just "grew" another Earth-3.

Apologies for the length of the explanation. Hope that helps.

[bigstupidjellyfish]

What happened to Earth 3 being destroyed by Anti Monitor?

Rebirth or Metal, who knows. Honestly, it doesn’t really matter. It’s been how many years since Darkseid War? They’re due for a comeback.

And if anyone says, “but Earth 3 was destroyed.” Yeah, it was but why does that mean it would be destroyed forever? Not having an Earth 3 is like an elevator not having a floor 5.

[Artemisfanboy]

Still continuity stuff though, in that Ultraman references having battled Superman more than once, which definitely wasn't the case in the New 52. Maybe Reborn altered some stuff, maybe the World Forger recreated Earth 3 post-Metal, or maybe that Justice League run was total ass and ignoring it is simply a good idea there's no reason not to go along with.

I'm just very confused by this entire story.
Because Earth 3 and the entire Crime Syndicate are supposed to be dead, and while this could be a time travel plot, Ultra Man mentions fighting Superman before and unless I'm misremembering(and I probably am) wasn't coming to prime earth after Earth 3's destruction the first time they met their counterparts?

I'm just assuming either some of the pre-crisis earth 3 and/or the post crisis antimatter crime sydicate stories got restored to continuity with rebirth with the New 52 team taking their place. A fairly simple assumption.

Oh yeah, for sure, and it's not like profess to know anything without any doubt, but my guesses are either Jon actually did spend years with his grandfather in space (he says it could've been years), then the year on Earth 3 and the year coming back home after earth 3. Or he did actually spend years on Earth 3 as the bulk of it, and then some weeks or months getting back home once he left Earth 3.

For him to have spent years with Jor-el, it would require more time shenanigans tha just this wormhole to earth three. Either Jor-el was constantly time hopping behind Jon's back, or they spent years in space with out the time travel in which case there should still be a Jon and Jor-el native to the present in addition the time traveling ones who passed through earth three. I admit I've been entertaining a vain hope that the later case is true and Superman and the time traveling Jon will end up stopping the younger Jon from going back in time, but I'm not too optimistic. The whole space travel with Jor-el time span has come across as very inconsistent to me and part of me hopes it's intentional and not just bad writing. It can't be explained by relativistic light speed travel as that would result in everyone else being aged up older than Jon, not Jon being older(assuming Bendis understands how relativity is suppose to work).

We may have different opinions on this story and on where we hope things will ultimately end, but I commend you for your respect.
Perhaps if there is someway for the two Jons to coexist we can both end up in place where we're reasonably satisfied.

[Badou]

What has Jon done here that is at all against his previous characterization? What is Bendis misunderstanding specifically? I'm genuinely asking, to me what I read was the same kid everyone else has been writing since Rebirth. Is it the slang in his speech or something, thus his voice that throws you? From the contents of the book, he bravely endured being imprisoned for some time by a maniac, used his wits and brain to find a way to eventually break free, and then traveled, helping various individuals along the way as he could, this strange Earth trying to find a way home. To me that seems generally on-point to the son of Superman that everyone else has been working with. Only difference is he's by himself completely on this particular journey. Furthermore as Superlad points out a lot, these challenges which are pretty extreme haven't made him dark, brooding, or evil. I have a hard time seeing how that message is bad and against past characterization. If this were used as an excuse to turn him into Jason Todd or something, okay. But that doesn't seem to be what's going on here at all. Rather completely the opposite that despite of what was thrown at him, he retains everything Superman and Lois taught him.

What made Jon's character intriguing is that he was a normal kid with a normal life who just happened to be the son of Superman and Lois. He is the exact opposite of what Damian's character was who was drenched in legacy and taking over this mantle or that throne and put through horrible circumstances constantly from birth to prepare him for his position. Jon had such a normal upbringing relatively speaking and it really hit that tone of him being a kid and having this wonderment that went along with it when being introduced to all these new superhero related things. You don't really see this kind of character, especially one so young, in comics at all these days.

What Bendis did is take his character and drag him through so many typical hero cliches it is such a turnoff to me. He shot him off into space to cut him off from his family and aged him up so he can better fit into a superman costume and have him fly around and punch things better, but that wasn't enough. He needs the character to also suffer because heroes have to suffer so he has him go through horrific situations with Ultraman and Earth 3 to hammer home how much of a hero he is, but that wasn't really something in question because we never really got to see Jon age properly into what he would have been originally. It holds no weight to it at all.

I get people have different tastes, and even like what Bendis is doing even if I don't understand it, but I think Bendis completely misunderstood what the appeal was of Jon's original character and has replaced him with something far more generic that I don't really see much appeal of. It isn't about him not being edgy or angry but how Bendis took an original concept and kind of tore it apart for his own creation that isn't really that interesting.

[Vordan]

He stopped being a normal kid with a normal life pretty quick though. Once his power manifested to be precise. Then he was running around with Damian, fighting crime from their underwater Fortress, and traveling the Multiverse with Kathy unsupervised.