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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Okay, that is not so simple.

    First thing here is that WB and DC are not technically the same company and, while since DCEntertainment was founded, WB does have a little bit more of a hands on approach - and the move to Burbank is a big evidence of that - the comics division is usually left to it's own devices as long as it delivers.

    Now, Dan first entered DC exactly to follow orders from WB, way back when. And as long as he does at his bosses are telling him, he's pretty much left to his own devices. And he always performed: under his regime a lot of new IPs were created - some more successful outside of comics than inside - several attempts at synergy were made (all of them pretty much failed, because synergy is not really a think that works with comics) and the guy was slick enough, and business savvy enough, to maneuver DC out of some pretty dire situations more than once (sure, he created some of those, but don't tell anyone. Have I mentioned that it's year of the villain yet again?). And doing that assured that, when WB decided that it would actually milk the comics division, Dan rose trough the ranks and got Levitz old job (someone else with whom he's said to constantly bust heads). Of course this also has to do with his talent for politics - he eliminated, alienated or downright fired any possible competition for his positions. (And you'll have to excuse me here: there's some shit I know for facts that just doesn't go in a public forum).

    Johns, OTOH, has a very complicated story: it's actually pointless to list the many positions he's occupied, but let's just say that that he fell on WB's grace than out of it around the time of the GL movie, went full comics again, fell on WB's grace again with his success in television, fell out of grace with movies, in grace again with movies, etc. There are 3 moments where he had some creative control over the DC line. The first was from right before DCE was founded (he was the one who put Gail Simone back in BoP, for instance) to about a year after the NEW52 - because as CCO he had some say in how properties should look/;feel in order to better sell them to other media, the second was his big movie promotion, a period where he was both Didio's boss and employee and vice versa, and finally Rebirth, which was an emergency measure. But by the time ATT&T bought WB, all accounts indicate that he had already fell out of prestige within the comics side - and the thematic undoing of Rebirth is some indication of that - and most people who care about this stuff theorize that the reason he left his corporate position was to secure his "job". An editorial culling came soon after, as well as a line reduction, which sort of corroborate that.

    So, yes, Johns has more clout... but it's Hollywood clout, not comics clout. Dan reigns supreme at the comics division, and even if they personally hated each other (which is not the case, AFAIK), and Geoff threw all his weight and all his influence around, he wouldn't make a dent on Dan right now, at all.

    The "how does Didio benefit" is a funny one: as I always say, he has a vision and boy will he enforce it. And the top one flaw in Dan's characters seems to be that he is petty: he is known for completing demolishing creative's contributions when and if they leave DC (or stay) in not so good terms with him. (There's a very old interview here at CBR where Waid answered a question of mine exactly on this mold, I can't find right now). And I believe that Rebirth in particular rubbed him the wrong way.

    So, in the case that's pertinent to this thread, the delays on DClock: it may be the case that Didio put put way too much extra time between issues so the status quo that it was supposed to generate never came to fruition. What I think is possible is that Geoff got a little late (as he usually does), Dan made the book bi-monthly (and looking good and understanding while doing it) and then started stripping elements of it so Johns would have to rework it and get more late. Superman and Legion go Bendis, Wally is mandated into HiC and hell, at this point, give the Justice Society to Scott because DClock just doesn't matter anyway. (See the Snyder quote that was later edited out at his request). Shazam getting resolicited to oblivion while "the Shazam who laughs" shows up also doesn't look good.

    Johns, OTOH, has no reason to fight this: he's barely a comics writer anymore. I'm pretty sure that most of his income is coming trough the streaming shows and producing movies. He gains nothing by picking a fight he can't win.
    This is essentially the reading I have of the whole situation with power politics at play behind the scenes. It will probably only ever be confirmed 30 years from now when someone writes a DC behind the scenes retrospective, like the Marvel Comics by Sean Howe book.

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I am not faulting him for that(even though, i disagree) . I am just pointing it out that dc management is perfectly capable of letting a book down for the sake of a brand new direction that they deem attractive or fit their vision.
    Agreed, but I still don't think Supersons or Legion are a fair comparison to Doomsday Clock. Bendis was brought to DC with the understanding that he'd be taking over the Superman books, of which the LSH and Supersons were considered a part of. Tomasi wasn't booted off the book. Hell, he was even given another 12 issues to do whatever he wanted to wrap up his run, even though it wasn't selling that well.

    That's not really the same as Didio mucking with DC's top title in order to handicap whatever Johns had planned.

  3. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArthurCurry View Post
    This is essentially the reading I have of the whole situation with power politics at play behind the scenes. It will probably only ever be confirmed 30 years from now when someone writes a DC behind the scenes retrospective, like the Marvel Comics by Sean Howe book.
    Whatever is going on, I am sure the story behind the last several years of DC’s ups and downs are going to make a helluva tale. I am not convinced it's quite as Game of Thrones as it’s being made out to be, but I am sure some crazy $%*& has gone down.

  4. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Whatever is going on, I am sure the story behind the last several years of DC’s ups and downs are going to make a helluva tale. I am not convinced it's quite as Game of Thrones as it’s being made out to be, but I am sure some crazy $%*& has gone down.
    It's coming up on fifty years since the Beatles broke up, and to this day, we don't have the definitive word on why they did. Even Paul and Ringo don't remember the reason anymore, and if John and George were still with us, they probably wouldn't remember either! ��

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  5. #350
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    Paul seemed to give a fairly well balanced description of the break-up when he was on the Howard Stern Show just last year:



    I think the assertion that John was the first Beatle to leave the group permanently, rather than just quit in a huff only to swiftly return like both Ringo and George did, but was persuaded to keep it quiet is a fairly accurate one.

  6. #351
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    If only...


  7. #352
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I REALLY dislike it when posters make a statement to the effect of "I have inside knowledge but I can't really discuss it here". I mean no disrespect to you but it's just how I feel about it. It's a way to make an opinion seem better or more important than someone else's, with no way to validate it.
    And you're completely right about that. Had I proof read this post I"d probably taken that bit out.

    That said, every stance I've taken on this thread is based on public info, if it helps..
    Last edited by BohemiaDrinker; 09-10-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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  8. #353
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    My complaint that all this is cynical is probably just frustration over seeing geeks leaping to the worst conclusions over and over again, so maybe I'm just projecting.
    Ah, got it. I feel the exact same way. I come here to talk about things I like and read about things others like. The negativity bums me out too.

  9. #354
    Astonishing Member kurenai24's Avatar
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    I had to go back 7 pages to see if this book had been delayed again b/c for 7 pages the purpose of this thread went off course, started by the same person (and others) who stated that discussions on the delays of this comic should be taken elsewhere...

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Since we had this in that other thread,Here's a thread to post JUST the latest dates for when the next issue is due out.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    I had to go back 7 pages to see if this book had been delayed again b/c for 7 pages the purpose of this thread went off course, started by the same person (and others) who stated that discussions on the delays of this comic should be taken elsewhere...
    Ha! Guilty as charged.

    I think we've ground this particular debate down about as far as it can go anyways. However, if anyone has more to add, we can do so in a new thread. Although I think I've said everything I can on this. Hell, I've probably said more than I should about this

    So, in deference to the intent of the thread:

    Doomsday Clock has no current release day, although Gary Frank thinks it might be sometime in November.

  11. #356
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Ha! Guilty as charged.

    I think we've ground this particular debate down about as far as it can go anyways. However, if anyone has more to add, we can do so in a new thread. Although I think I've said everything I can on this. Hell, I've probably said more than I should about this

    So, in deference to the intent of the thread:

    Doomsday Clock has no current release day, although Gary Frank thinks it might be sometime in November.
    November solicits are expected next week, aren't they?

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    November solicits are expected next week, aren't they?
    I think so. I wouldn't be surprised if issue #12 comes out in November and they can rush out a collected edition the very next month for Xmas. Although that would probably be the fastest turn around ever

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Who do we blame for ending Dick Grayson's days as Robin, killing off Barry Allen in COIE, eliminating the original DC Multiverse, and bringing the curtain down on the Bronze Age, Bored?
    I mean, the Nightwing identity has become iconic for Dick and ending his time as Robin significantly expanded the Batman and Robin mythology past just Bruce and Dick. Likewise, Barry Allen died a hero and his death paved the way for one of the most legendary runs on the Flash of all time. So, were these decisions really bad in the long run??

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    I mean, the Nightwing identity has become iconic for Dick and ending his time as Robin significantly expanded the Batman and Robin mythology past just Bruce and Dick. Likewise, Barry Allen died a hero and his death paved the way for one of the most legendary runs on the Flash of all time. So, were these decisions really bad in the long run??
    It was if you were digging the Bronze Age status quo.

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  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    November solicits are expected next week, aren't they?
    November solicitudes were released last month. That's why I think #12 Will be released on December, 3 months after #11

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