Doomsday Clock next issue is due out . . .

[H-E-D]

Neither of us know that, but to a series that was first teased with Doc Manhattan holding Wally's watch - which was a gift given by Barry - the whole implication that Wally has been a pushback of sorts to Manhattan time-edits and the highly editorial nature of HiC, the idea that this whole theme was simply vetoed from DClock is actually a pretty reasonable one, considering how little Wally or Barry this series has had.

I remember when DClock was first announced, Johns said it took him a while after writing the rebirth oneshot to figure out what the story was actually going to be about. I think he even said he considered recusing himself from the project before he found an angle that worked for him.

Simply speaking, I think when he wrote Rebirth, he didn't actually know where he was going with it, and so he just grabbed a lot of Watchmen associated imagery and used it to make vague ominous statements, and then felt no obligation to write Doomsday Clock to match them.

[Frontier]

I remember when DClock was first announced, Johns said it took him a while after writing the rebirth oneshot to figure out what the story was actually going to be about. I think he even said he considered recusing himself from the project before he found an angle that worked for him.

Simply speaking, I think when he wrote Rebirth, he didn't actually know where he was going with it, and so he just grabbed a lot of Watchmen associated imagery and used it to make vague ominous statements, and then felt no obligation to write Doomsday Clock to match them.

I think he had a general sense of the story he wanted to tell given the thoroughline of the Rebirth one-shot and the fact that he worked with practically every Rebirth creative team for their initial stories.

Whether his ideas or concepts changed over time, DC Editorial changed things, or whatever...we may never really know.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I remember when DClock was first announced, Johns said it took him a while after writing the rebirth oneshot to figure out what the story was actually going to be about. I think he even said he considered recusing himself from the project before he found an angle that worked for him.

Simply speaking, I think when he wrote Rebirth, he didn't actually know where he was going with it, and so he just grabbed a lot of Watchmen associated imagery and used it to make vague ominous statements, and then felt no obligation to write Doomsday Clock to match them.

Okay, but let's see:

Have we ever had a Geoff Johns run or event where the starting character is not also the ending character? (We may have had, but I donb't remember).

Have we had a story by Johns where "the thing that is important as shown in the first issue" is not the thing where he hits us in the head with while shouting "LOOK, I TOLD THING WAS IMPORTANT?". I honestly believe we didn't.

OTOH, have we had another character in the current administration whose any passing thought of, maybe, having a good thing, was so vehemently and violently smashed with an editorial hammer? This, I know for a fact we didn't.

That, and the bunch of pacing and structure issues with this story not to mention the absurd delays (even by Johns standards), to me, screams "editorial".

Which is a much more fundamented guess that Johns is working a lot, because, let's be honest, Johns was never not working a lot.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Neither of us know that, but to a series that was first teased with Doc Manhattan holding Wally's watch - which was a gift given by Barry - the whole implication that Wally has been a pushback of sorts to Manhattan time-edits and the highly editorial nature of HiC, the idea that this whole theme was simply vetoed from DClock is actually a pretty reasonable one, considering how little Wally or Barry this series has had.

15 years of a pretty consistent M.O. is not nothing, Bored. This is not the first Johns story with important bits chopped off, if that's case here.

Sorry, but, again, not liking Dan Didio or his mismanagement of the original Teen Titans generation is not evidence that editorial is responsible for the delays that Doomsday Clock has had. Just because it fits your preconceptions does not make it more or less likely to be true.

The only facts that are currently known are that Geoff Johns has an immensely time consuming workload. We also know that Jason Fabok asked Tom King if he wanted to collaborate on a comic while he was waiting for Johns to deliver his scripts for Three Jokers, which were delayed because Johns was so busy doing all his Hollywood gigs.

Given all this, what's more likely, that Johns has been late delivering scripts because of his workload and wanting to make sure he's delivering a story worthy of Watchmen or that Dan Didio is deliberately mucking with Geoff Johns, who now has vastly more corporate power within Warner Bros than Didio? Yes, Didio was able to boss Johns around before, particularly with Infinite Crisis, but even now that Johns is not President of DC Films, he's still producing/writing for half their output. Didio is a smart enough corporate animal to let Johns do his own thing, particularly given how well received Doomsday Clock has been, both critically and financially.

If you look at this objectively, rather than through the lense of "Dan Didio wants to break all my favorite stuff", these conspiracy theories do not hold up to any scrutiny.

Now, has Didio readjusted the direction of the DCU from what Johns originally intended when he started Rebirth because of how delayed Doomsday Clock has been. That's probably true, but since nobody but Johns ever seemed privy to what that direction was supposed to be, we'll never know. Rucka stated that he wasn't told what the overall plan with Rebirth was, and he was in charge of relaunching Wonder Woman. Giffen similarly didn't know. It's entirely possible that they were winging it to see what worked and what didn't. We also know that, at one point, Johns decided against doing his follow-up to Rebirth altogether until Trump's election changed his mind. My guess is that it's always been in flux.

But I don't really know, and nobody on this board does either. Spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that assign malice towards people who are just trying to create good comics is not something I think creates a healthy atmosphere on these forums, which are already overflowing with resentment and anger. I see no reason to throw more gasoline on that fire.

[manwhohaseverything]

Sorry, but, again, not liking Dan Didio or his mismanagement of the original Teen Titans generation is not evidence that editorial is responsible for the delays that Doomsday Clock has had. Just because it fits your preconceptions does not make it more or less likely to be true.

The only facts that are currently known are that Geoff Johns has an immensely time consuming workload. We also know that Jason Fabok asked Tom King if he wanted to collaborate on a comic while he was waiting for Johns to deliver his scripts for Three Jokers, which were delayed because Johns was so busy doing all his Hollywood gigs.

Given all this, what's more likely, that Johns has been late delivering scripts because of his workload and wanting to make sure he's delivering a story worthy of Watchmen or that Dan Didio is deliberately mucking with Geoff Johns, who now has vastly more corporate power within Warner Bros than Didio? Yes, Didio was able to boss Johns around before, particularly with Infinite Crisis, but even now that Johns is not President of DC Films, he's still producing/writing for half their output. Didio is a smart enough corporate animal to let Johns do his own thing, particularly given how well received Doomsday Clock has been, both critically and financially.

If you look at this objectively, rather than through the lense of "Dan Didio wants to break all my favorite stuff", these conspiracy theories do not hold up to any scrutiny.

Now, has Didio readjusted the direction of the DCU from what Johns originally intended when he started Rebirth because of how delayed Doomsday Clock has been. That's probably true, but since nobody but Johns ever seemed privy to what that direction was supposed to be, we'll never know. Rucka stated that he wasn't told what the overall plan with Rebirth was, and he was in charge of relaunching Wonder Woman. Giffen similarly didn't know. It's entirely possible that they were winging it to see what worked and what didn't. We also know that, at one point, Johns decided against doing his follow-up to Rebirth altogether until Trump's election changed his mind. My guess is that it's always been in flux.

But I don't really know, and nobody on this board does either. Spreading unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that assign malice towards people who are just trying to create good comics is not something I think creates a healthy atmosphere on these forums, which are already overflowing with resentment and anger. I see no reason to throw more gasoline on that fire.

So, you think the delays are entirely on John's schedule? I think thats naive. The delays only started getting longer after the whole metal event. Before that it was said to release on regular two month interval schedule, like the og watchmen used to from a what i heard. I don't buy the editorial had nothing to do with delays. It contributed a hell of a lot. Its not like the management are unbiased like you are expecting fans to be. They are petty enough to bury DC characters for their own favourites.@bohemiadrinker has all the right to speculate whether the story had more wally or not. Since, the narrative started with him. Without wally there is no rebirth. It was also revealed that wally was kept of flash books by mandate, showing their pettiness. So, it won't be the first time wally got screwed over.

At the end of the day all the people want is to get main story of ddc intact. From the way saturn girl was treated. It feels like even that is compromised. Clark's legion and Saturn girl didn't even get a narrative closure in the book. And for what? A legion reboot for the umpteenth time. It just isn't a good trade of for me. Seriously,a Reboot story inside a story about embracing the past and moving forward. I am prepared to wait for the book, if i get the narrative intact.So, they should have atleast let it finish, for the people that waited. Now, what is left in this book? Clark will pull his "inspirational speech" bit and story will be over. No impact! No nothing!

[Korath]

At the end of the day all the people want is to get main story of ddc intact. From the way saturn girl was treated. It feels like even that is compromised. Clark's legion and Saturn girl didn't even get a narrative closure in the book. And for what? A legion reboot for the umpteenth time. It just isn't a good trade of for me. Seriously,a Reboot story inside a story about embracing the past and moving forward. I am prepared to wait for the book, if i get the narrative intact.So, they should have atleast let it finish, for the people that waited. Now, what is left in this book? Clark will pull his "inspirational speech" bit and story will be over. No impact! No nothing!

But all of this rest on Johns failure to realize that the strength of Watchmen is a very simple plot ("Someone is killing former vigilantes and must be found"), juxtaposed with a complex setting ("a world very much like our own, on the verge of nuclear annihilation because of the existence of a lone all-powerful individual") allowed the exploration of a small set of characters, which had space to be flesh out and play out with each other, allowing for the deepness of the story. Dr. Manhattan, Rorschach, Nite Owl, Silk Spectre, Ozymandias, and to a lesser extent the Comedian are the sole true characters of the story.

Meanwhile, in Doomsday Clock, we had, from the beginning Ozymandias, Rorschach II, Mime, Marionette, Saturn Girl, Johnny Thunder, Superman, Batman, Lew, The Comedian, Doctor Manhattan (perhaps others I'm forgetting) which were positioned as important (or at least looked like they would be important). And that's without counting the subplots of the Supermen Theory, Khandaq, the Villains in Gotham (or was it Metropolis?) and perhaps other which have also slipped off my mind.

Doomsday Clock was always far too crowded, far too unsure of what it wanted to be, what story it wanted to tell, to have more than one and a half important character : Ozymandias and Jon. And that's it. And that's why we are where we are today. Not because of editorial interference betraying a perfect evergreen story. But an over-ambitious writer who found himself stuck for too long, unable to move and leaving us with a convoluted story which seems to go nowhere, because we don't understand what's at stake inside the story.

I'm not saying that Doomsday Clock was ever bad. But it was always empty. Sure, it gave more of that pure sugary Nostalgia to the fans who so clearly relished it with the Rebirth Special and initiative, which allowed DC and themselves to slash and burn everything done during the New 52, as if nothing even average had been done there, often in the most petty of manners (with Greg Rucka and Dan Jurgens taking the spotlight for most blatant and arrogant shots at what came before). But Doomsday Clock was full of problems from the star, which would have always precluded it from being that great game-changer in the DC Universe so many clearly craved.

Because, unlike Metal which -while clearly not as well crafted as Doomsday Clock told a far better story, adding things up to the DCU instead of erasing more to bring back some selective pieces of its past- Doomsday Clock was too hang-up with being the "new Watchmen" but in the DCU, with aberrant choices (such as setting the story one or some years in the future is almost always a receipt for disaster, especially in a universe like comics, with dozens of creators working separately from each other) to truly create more, to be, for a lack of better term, generous. Snyder can sometimes be too much, creating too much new things, so being generous isn't in itself a quality, but by trying to be a worthy Watchmen successor, Doomsday Clock could never marry the nihilistic tone of its precursor with an expansion of the DCU.

Johns did try to add things up (the Supermen Theory, the Khandaq as a refuge for metahumans), but, let's be honest. Did anyone ever believed that such monumental elements could be truly treated in a satisfying way in a 12 issues series ? So far, those elements were mostly used so that Black Adam would punch Superman into Dr. Manhattan. Literally. By trying to tell an incredibly momentous story, Geoff Jonhs kind of shot himself in the foot, and we are left with what we have today, and I think that editorial intervention has very little to do with it.

At least, that's how I feel about the whole project.

[manwhohaseverything]

But all of this rest on Johns failure to realize that the strength of Watchmen is a very simple plot ("Someone is killing former vigilantes and must be found"), juxtaposed with a complex setting ("a world very much like our own, on the verge of nuclear annihilation because of the existence of a lone all-powerful individual") allowed the exploration of a small set of characters, which had space to be flesh out and play out with each other, allowing for the deepness of the story. Dr. Manhattan, Rorschach, Nite Owl, Silk Spectre, Ozymandias, and to a lesser extent the Comedian are the sole true characters of the story.

Meanwhile, in Doomsday Clock, we had, from the beginning Ozymandias, Rorschach II, Mime, Marionette, Saturn Girl, Johnny Thunder, Superman, Batman, Lew, The Comedian, Doctor Manhattan (perhaps others I'm forgetting) which were positioned as important (or at least looked like they would be important). And that's without counting the subplots of the Supermen Theory, Khandaq, the Villains in Gotham (or was it Metropolis?) and perhaps other which have also slipped off my mind.

Doomsday Clock was always far too crowded, far too unsure of what it wanted to be, what story it wanted to tell, to have more than one and a half important character : Ozymandias and Jon. And that's it. And that's why we are where we are today. Not because of editorial interference betraying a perfect evergreen story. But an over-ambitious writer who found himself stuck for too long, unable to move and leaving us with a convoluted story which seems to go nowhere, because we don't understand what's at stake inside the story.

I'm not saying that Doomsday Clock was ever bad. But it was always empty. Sure, it gave more of that pure sugary Nostalgia to the fans who so clearly relished it with the Rebirth Special and initiative, which allowed DC and themselves to slash and burn everything done during the New 52, as if nothing even average had been done there, often in the most petty of manners (with Greg Rucka and Dan Jurgens taking the spotlight for most blatant and arrogant shots at what came before). But Doomsday Clock was full of problems from the star, which would have always precluded it from being that great game-changer in the DC Universe so many clearly craved.

Because, unlike Metal which -while clearly not as well crafted as Doomsday Clock told a far better story, adding things up to the DCU instead of erasing more to bring back some selective pieces of its past- Doomsday Clock was too hang-up with being the "new Watchmen" but in the DCU, with aberrant choices (such as setting the story one or some years in the future is almost always a receipt for disaster, especially in a universe like comics, with dozens of creators working separately from each other) to truly create more, to be, for a lack of better term, generous. Snyder can sometimes be too much, creating too much new things, so being generous isn't in itself a quality, but by trying to be a worthy Watchmen successor, Doomsday Clock could never marry the nihilistic tone of its precursor with an expansion of the DCU.

Johns did try to add things up (the Supermen Theory, the Khandaq as a refuge for metahumans), but, let's be honest. Did anyone ever believed that such monumental elements could be truly treated in a satisfying way in a 12 issues series ? So far, those elements were mostly used so that Black Adam would punch Superman into Dr. Manhattan. Literally. By trying to tell an incredibly momentous story, Geoff Jonhs kind of shot himself in the foot, and we are left with what we have today, and I think that editorial intervention has very little to do with it.

At least, that's how I feel about the whole project.

Tell me, i am new reader. My only exposure to comics was the birthright i read years ago and smallville, dcau. What kind of nostalgia would i get from it? If it was empty as you say, then why did people get something from it.it's fine, If you don't get anything from it. Well, for me it is a narrative about arrogant "smart" men playing god, thinking they know better and trying to "fix" the world with lies that they tell not only to themselves but also other. Only to make everything worse and truly break it.

The narrative you talk about with khandaq. It was plays into that theme. Here, black adam plays the "champion of the oppressed". But does he truly care about the oppressed?No.He built a place for metahuman refugees. that's great. But, only for reigning as king. He was using the metas for taking the power which he wanted for himself in disguise of championing the oppressed.

[Korath]

Tell me, i am new reader. My only exposure to comics was the birthright i read years ago and smallville, dcau. What kind of nostalgia would i get from it? If it was empty as you say, then why did people get something from it.it's fine, If you don't get anything from it. Well, for me it is a narrative about arrogant "smart" men playing god, thinking they know better and trying to "fix" the world with lies that they tell not only to themselves but also other. Only to make everything worse and truly break it.

The narrative you talk about with khandaq. It was plays into that theme. Here, black adam plays the "champion of the oppressed". But does he truly care about the oppressed?No.He built a place for metahuman refugees. that's great. But, only for reigning as king. He was using the metas for taking the power which he wanted for himself in disguise of championing the oppressed.

People got something from it because they expected more from it than Johns could ever deliver and were fooled by the incredibly beautiful "exteriors" (and I'm not talking about just the art here, but also the appearance of the story itself). But I always found Doomsday Clock empty, utterly failing to elicit something in me, because, for me, it is an exquisitely and incredibly beautiful to behold balloon of hot air and it has always been.

I would also note that you conflate being an old reader and being attracted by the Nostalgia of the DC Universe. Those are not elements which go hand in hand. From what I've seen in your post, the "flavor" of the DC Books you like is more akin to the older ones from DC (those I often find unattractive to utterly repulsive - hello, All-Star Superman), and that's a "flavor" that Doomsday Clock had in spades, even if it mixed it with the Watchmen "flavor". To have an apter metaphor : being young doesn't mean that one can't have old ideas, nor being old prevent one from developing young ideas.

I'm not sure it's clearer, but I honestly don't know how to explain it better in English :/

[kingaliencracker]

So, you think the delays are entirely on John's schedule? I think thats naive. The delays only started getting longer after the whole metal event. Before that it was said to release on regular two month interval schedule, like the og watchmen used to from a what i heard. I don't buy the editorial had nothing to do with delays. It contributed a hell of a lot. Its not like the management are unbiased like you are expecting fans to be. They are petty enough to bury DC characters for their own favourites.@bohemiadrinker has all the right to speculate whether the story had more wally or not. Since, the narrative started with him. Without wally there is no rebirth. It was also revealed that wally was kept of flash books by mandate, showing their pettiness. So, it won't be the first time wally got screwed over.

At the end of the day all the people want is to get main story of ddc intact. From the way saturn girl was treated. It feels like even that is compromised. Clark's legion and Saturn girl didn't even get a narrative closure in the book. And for what? A legion reboot for the umpteenth time. It just isn't a good trade of for me. Seriously,a Reboot story inside a story about embracing the past and moving forward. I am prepared to wait for the book, if i get the narrative intact.So, they should have atleast let it finish, for the people that waited. Now, what is left in this book? Clark will pull his "inspirational speech" bit and story will be over. No impact! No nothing!

Given that Shazam is now delayed indefinitely, The Three Jokers has yet to even be solicited almost 5 years after being dropped in Darkseid War, and given Johns' track record even before NEW 52, I would say it's more fair to assume that the delays are primarily and almost exclusively due to Johns' busy schedule, rather than Didio & Company scheming behind the scenes to undermine Doomsday Clock or otherwise interfering with the story.

Rebirth happened specifically because sales were dipping and according to Didio himself, no one was talking about DC at the conventions he was attending. There was no grand plan behind Rebirth except Didio realized there were failures of NEW 52 and DCYOU that he wanted fixed. From what I've read, Johns more or less had to be begged to do the Rebirth special by DC, and was hesitant to do Doomsday Clock initially. As far as the fate of Saturn Girl, well...this is the same guy in Johns who had Superboy Prime pummel the Golden Age Superman to death after both were given a happy send off following Crisis on Infinite Earths. Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that Saturn Girl's fate was his doing, rather than any type of outside interference?

So yeah, I think there is an abundance of evidence pointing towards Johns being the problem here and not Didio, Snyder, Bendis, etc.. And I say this as a big Geoff Johns fan, but understanding like every other writer/artist he's fallible.

[manwhohaseverything]

People got something from it because they expected more from it than Johns could ever deliver and were fooled by the incredibly beautiful "exteriors" (and I'm not talking about just the art here, but also the appearance of the story itself). But I always found Doomsday Clock empty, utterly failing to elicit something in me, because, for me, it is an exquisitely and incredibly beautiful to behold balloon of hot air and it has always been.

I would also note that you conflate being an old reader and being attracted by the Nostalgia of the DC Universe. Those are not elements which go hand in hand. From what I've seen in your post, the "flavor" of the DC Books you like is more akin to the older ones from DC (those I often find unattractive to utterly repulsive - hello, All-Star Superman), and that's a "flavor" that Doomsday Clock had in spades, even if it mixed it with the Watchmen "flavor". To have an apter metaphor : being young doesn't mean that one can't have old ideas, nor being old prevent one from developing young ideas.

I'm not sure it's clearer, but I honestly don't know how to explain it better in English :/

That's fine. But, calling it empty as an objective fact is disingenuous. The whole narrative has been emphasising on the thing i have been saying The americans building metahumans,ozy's plot... Etc.

[manwhohaseverything]

Given that Shazam is now delayed indefinitely, The Three Jokers has yet to even be solicited almost 5 years after being dropped in Darkseid War, and given Johns' track record even before NEW 52, I would say it's more fair to assume that the delays are primarily and almost exclusively due to Johns' busy schedule, rather than Didio & Company scheming behind the scenes to undermine Doomsday Clock or otherwise interfering with the story.

Rebirth happened specifically because sales were dipping and according to Didio himself, no one was talking about DC at the conventions he was attending. There was no grand plan behind Rebirth except Didio realized there were failures of NEW 52 and DCYOU that he wanted fixed. From what I've read, Johns more or less had to be begged to do the Rebirth special by DC, and was hesitant to do Doomsday Clock initially. As far as the fate of Saturn Girl, well...this is the same guy in Johns who had Superboy Prime pummel the Golden Age Superman to death after both were given a happy send off following Crisis on Infinite Earths. Is it really beyond the realm of possibility that Saturn Girl's fate was his doing, rather than any type of outside interference?

So yeah, I think there is an abundance of evidence pointing towards Johns being the problem here and not Didio, Snyder, Bendis, etc.. And I say this as a big Geoff Johns fan, but understanding like every other writer/artist he's fallible.

@bold That was different narrative. wasn't it? It was all about fans needing to get over their nostalgia.
Anyways, i guess you are right about the delays. But, the delays aren't my problem. I can also understand that as a company you can't freeze ip's in hopes that a story is finished for long.to that i say, management shouldn't have given the ip's in the first place forseeing the delays. Meddling with the narrative now is just not cool. It doesn't fix the problem and makes the delays longer. That's just my complaint.

[Vordan]

I think the delays are a mix of Johns not getting the scripts out on time, Frank being a slow artist and maybe some editorial interference. Whatever the cause the story has turned sour for me. All these delays combined with the brutal sendoff Irma got has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I can’t possibly see how Johns ends this in a satisfactory way.

[kingaliencracker]

@bold That was different narrative. wasn't it? It was all about fans needing to get over their nostalgia.
Anyways, i guess you are right about the delays. But, the delays aren't my problem. I can also understand that as a company you can't freeze ip's in hopes that a story is finished for long.to that i say, management shouldn't have given the ip's in the first place forseeing the delays. Meddling with the narrative now is just not cool. It doesn't fix the problem and makes the delays longer. That's just my complaint.

The flaw with Rebirth and Doomsday Clock is that Doomsday Clock should have started about 6 months after the Rebirth Special, should have been a monthly title, and should have been well finished by now, establishing the new status quo for DC by 2018 and beyond. By the time Doomsday Clock saw print, the momentum of Rebirth had all but diminished, and Doomsday Clock's erratic schedule has ensured that its impact to the DCU will be minimal as DC has clearly moved towards a different direction.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

So, you think the delays are entirely on John's schedule? I think thats naive. The delays only started getting longer after the whole metal event. Before that it was said to release on regular two month interval schedule, like the og watchmen used to from a what i heard. I don't buy the editorial had nothing to do with delays. It contributed a hell of a lot. Its not like the management are unbiased like you are expecting fans to be. They are petty enough to bury DC characters for their own favourites.@bohemiadrinker has all the right to speculate whether the story had more wally or not. Since, the narrative started with him. Without wally there is no rebirth. It was also revealed that wally was kept of flash books by mandate, showing their pettiness. So, it won't be the first time wally got screwed over.

At the end of the day all the people want is to get main story of ddc intact. From the way saturn girl was treated. It feels like even that is compromised. Clark's legion and Saturn girl didn't even get a narrative closure in the book. And for what? A legion reboot for the umpteenth time. It just isn't a good trade of for me. Seriously,a Reboot story inside a story about embracing the past and moving forward. I am prepared to wait for the book, if i get the narrative intact.So, they should have atleast let it finish, for the people that waited. Now, what is left in this book? Clark will pull his "inspirational speech" bit and story will be over. No impact! No nothing!

Again, you are assuming malice because it fits what your preconceived notions of what the situation is. If you view Didio as a villain out to screw over Geoff Johns and fans of the original Teen Titans characters (and, now, LSH fans, apparently), then it would be very easy to assume that this is the cause of the delays to Doomsday Clock. If you remove that assumption, this theory falls apart completely.

Once more, I am not saying that underhanded $#!& doesn't happen in the comics industry. The costly recall of the most recent Superman & Supergirl over what appears to be an editorial pissing contest is certainly evidence of that. However, to automatically assume malice and bad intentions is simply not the good way to approach the world. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that tends to lead to getting the exact terrible outcome predicted because why would anyone try to do something good if they know they'll only get $#@+ upon for even trying.

This isn't about the right to complain. Complaining loudly and incessantly is what we comic fans excel at That said, it's also my right to point out how it's unfair and downright low to repeatedly accuse someone of deliberately sabotaging someone's story based upon no evidence other than a strong dislike of their editorial decisions. If you guys want to continue to spout unsupported and mean-spirited conspiracy theories on these forums, people like myself and others will continue to point out to you that what you're doing is the exact opposite of what the heroes we read about would do.

[kingaliencracker]

Again, you are assuming malice because it fits what your preconceived notions of what the situation is. If you view Didio as a villain out to screw over Geoff Johns and fans of the original Teen Titans characters (and, now, LSH fans, apparently), then it would be very easy to assume that this is the cause of the delays to Doomsday Clock. If you remove that assumption, this theory falls apart completely.

Once more, I am not saying that underhanded $#!& doesn't happen in the comics industry. The costly recall of the most recent Superman & Supergirl over what appears to be an editorial pissing contest is certainly evidence of that. However, to automatically assume malice and bad intentions is simply not the good way to approach the world. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy that tends to lead to getting the exact terrible outcome predicted because why would anyone try to do something good if they know they'll only get $#@+ upon for even trying.

This isn't about the right to complain. Complaining loudly and incessantly is what we comic fans excel at That said, it's also my right to point out how it's unfair and downright low to repeatedly accuse someone of deliberately sabotaging someone's story based upon no evidence other than a strong dislike of their editorial decisions. If you guys want to continue to spout unsupported and mean-spirited conspiracy theories on these forums, people like myself and others will continue to point out to you that what you're doing is the exact opposite of what the heroes we read about would do.

I also think that along with the vitriol that some fans levy towards Didio, they conversely view Johns as their champion - like Johns is trying to keep continuity and characters in tact, while Didio is thwarting him at every move.

I know that not to be true, but some fans see it that way.