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  1. #76
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It’s not just their relationships. The characters themselves step on each other’s toes. They steal from each other, they unknowingly fight over the same spots, they even get fed to one another in efforts to get over.
    I think a part of the reason for that is, again, character mishandling and regression thanks to reboots or bad writing.

  2. #77
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Okay, say if this sounds genius or unbelievably stupid because it could go either way:

    I would limit the central Batfamily (having appearances in the main Batman title) to three characters:

    Bruce Wayne:
    Once more continuing the role of BATMAN, Wayne is determined to take the next step to redeem Gotham as the Mayor of Gotham City, with retired Batgirl Barbara Gordon as his Deputy Mayor. However in order to help Gotham from the top down, he must make compromises and kowtow to the highly corrupt political establishment and the organized crime leaders who control Gotham, while simultaneously trying to destroy them.

    Selina Kyle
    Newlywed aristocrat and reformed villain Selina Wayne is turning over a new leaf as Batman's female counterpart and partner, BATWOMAN. Her personal mission is to reform former criminals such as Mister Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Catman.

    Damian Wayne
    From ashes of Robin comes... BATBOY!

    The monthly Batman comic will be the only title published by DC that will have Batman in a starring role, as for the creative team for 'Batman' not to be bogged down by parallel events occurring in other books.

    Detective Comics will be an ongoing, black and white anthology series consisting of three, 15 page long ongoing features:

    1. Nightwing and Flamebird
    Starring Tim Drake and Cassandra Cain as the respective aforementioned monikers. A cold, hard detective thriller akin to David Fincher's Se7en and Zodiac, mixed in with the pulp zaniness of Grant Morrison's Batman Inc.

    2. Hawkman
    The original detective of the DC Universe. A bold, epic saga starting in Ancient Egypt and climaxing at the ends of time.

    3 Razorwolf
    A new era for Dick Grayson, the premier hero of New York City, the Metahuman capital of the world. One of the few places where humans are the minority.
    I am fine with the idea of Batman on-going being of the central Bat-family, and Detective being divided to have 3 short stories consisting of other Batman related heroes... And I applaud the creativity. But I tend to be rather stuck in my ways so most of it doesnt work for me.

    For me:

    Catwoman should remain Catwoman whether she marries Batman or not.

    Batman's sidekick has a name and it is iconic. Robin. He also gets to keep it, whether it is Damian or Tim.

    Dick has his own on-going title as Nightwing so gets to keep it. (both his Nightwing identity and his own series)

    Whoever doesn't get to be Robin from the Damian/Tim duo will probably either have his own solo (with new ID) or will remain part of a team and show up there...

    I kind of see Detective Comics as "Batman property" now so on the fence about having Hawkman there and would rather have all 3 stories be for the extended Bat-family or Gotham based Batman allies (and would be random rather than each month having the same 3 heroes show up there)... but would be a call back to the origins of DC so could work... Also not sure how well a black/white comic would sell... BUT would be interesting for Detective Comics to be the more "experimental" one where you do get stuff like black & white stories from time to time, or where there are times a more obscure/forgotten about hero will get the spotlight etc.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Another way to reduce the BatFamily, while still utilizing fan favorite characters is to make them basically disappear out of current continuity, but have them in leading roles in titles that take place in the canonical future of the DC Universe, with legacy characters taking their mentor's roles. I understand that editorially you have to be surgically careful in being vague about the status quo of the DC Universe in this future, but I think this idea will energize fans of those characters:

    Batman (Weekly)
    Written (2 issues a month) by Jeff Parker; (1 issue a month) by Christopher Priest; (1 issue a month by (generic newcomer)
    Cover Art by Dan Panosian, Sean Murphey, and Jim Lee

    Tim Drake is Batman. The man who Bruce Wayne chose to succeed him as the Caped Crusader. Forced to take a role he never asked for, and with Clark Kent presumed dead, and Gotham City more or less a thriving utopia, Drake must keep guard over Metropolis, reduced to a desolate hellhole by Darksied, who has secretly taken over the city, as a precursor to a widescale invasion of the universe. He is not alone however, as he is aided by his begrudging sidekick, Damian Wayne aka Batboy, as well as his informant and sometimes love interest, Stephanie Brown aka Riddler.

  4. #79
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    DC already tried shoving a bat in the future (ie Tim as B-man Beyond) and I don’t remeber either fanbase enjoying it.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    DC already tried shoving a bat in the future (ie Tim as B-man Beyond) and I don’t remeber either fanbase enjoying it.
    Batman Beyond is Terry's book. Nobody else's.

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    DC already tried shoving a bat in the future (ie Tim as B-man Beyond) and I don’t remeber either fanbase enjoying it.
    That book still baffles me, like to who was directed? it certanly wasn't Tim fans and i'm pretty sure that Batman Beyond weren't the target either (while you'll bring the book back and not use his protagonist!), plus having an apocalyptic future that wasn't really BB vibe at all, like why that was a thing?.

    In that same vein, i'm still surprised that Jurgens run with Terry had lasted this long.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    DC already tried shoving a bat in the future (ie Tim as B-man Beyond) and I don’t remeber either fanbase enjoying it.
    In context, my original idea for the Tim Drake Batman book that I posted in the "Pitch an Imprint" thread was that it would be sold only at newspaper stands, grocery stores, etcetera, so it would be geared towards a non-comic reading audience. Because of the casual audience probably not knowing much about DC lore, they would just assume this is the new status quo for the Batman character, and not an alternate future story, as some comic fans would cynically expect if it were only sold at comic stores and the like. Little did these non comic readers know that titles set in the present day featuring the more typical Bruce Wayne in the cowl will be sold on the direct market.

    Also the Batman Beyond analogy is not apt, as my pitch for a Tim Drake Batman series would be considered in continuity while I don't think there was a doubt in anyone's mind that the Batman Beyond canon had no leverage over the present DC Universe. It is my basic understanding that the Batman Beyond continuity was merely perceived as an alternate future of the DC Universe.

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    In context, my original idea for the Tim Drake Batman book that I posted in the "Pitch an Imprint" thread was that it would be sold only at newspaper stands, grocery stores, etcetera, so it would be geared towards a non-comic reading audience. Because of the casual audience probably not knowing much about DC lore, they would just assume this is the new status quo for the Batman character, and not an alternate future story, as some comic fans would cynically expect if it were only sold at comic stores and the like. Little did these non comic readers know that titles set in the present day featuring the more typical Bruce Wayne in the cowl will be sold on the direct market.

    Also the Batman Beyond analogy is not apt, as my pitch for a Tim Drake Batman series would be considered in continuity while I don't think there was a doubt in anyone's mind that the Batman Beyond canon had no leverage over the present DC Universe. It is my basic understanding that the Batman Beyond continuity was merely perceived as an alternate future of the DC Universe.
    Nah. Tim is meant to be the Ash Ketchum of DC; he never gets older and always destined to go back to being Robin. Even when he's old and cranky, with a coffee IV going into his arm, he'll still be in the Robin motif.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    That book still baffles me, like to who was directed? it certanly wasn't Tim fans and i'm pretty sure that Batman Beyond weren't the target either (while you'll bring the book back and not use his protagonist!), plus having an apocalyptic future that wasn't really BB vibe at all, like why that was a thing?.

    In that same vein, i'm still surprised that Jurgens run with Terry had lasted this long.
    Rebirth batman Beyond is a solid title. I'm glad it's lasted this long

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Nah. Tim is meant to be the Ash Ketchum of DC; he never gets older and always destined to go back to being Robin. Even when he's old and cranky, with a coffee IV going into his arm, he'll still be in the Robin motif.
    All characters have to progress.

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    In context, my original idea for the Tim Drake Batman book that I posted in the "Pitch an Imprint" thread was that it would be sold only at newspaper stands, grocery stores, etcetera, so it would be geared towards a non-comic reading audience. Because of the casual audience probably not knowing much about DC lore, they would just assume this is the new status quo for the Batman character, and not an alternate future story, as some comic fans would cynically expect if it were only sold at comic stores and the like. Little did these non comic readers know that titles set in the present day featuring the more typical Bruce Wayne in the cowl will be sold on the direct market.

    Also the Batman Beyond analogy is not apt, as my pitch for a Tim Drake Batman series would be considered in continuity while I don't think there was a doubt in anyone's mind that the Batman Beyond canon had no leverage over the present DC Universe. It is my basic understanding that the Batman Beyond continuity was merely perceived as an alternate future of the DC Universe.
    Doesn't that muck things for outside media stuff? Selling them on a DCU that isn't the actual DCU and is unlikely to be the DCU that's adapted for outside media. It just adds obstacles and complicates matters for no good reason.

    Why in the world would DC want the non comic reading world [which is the majority of the general public] to think that the new status quo of their biggest IP Bruce Wayne batman is Tim Drake Batman?

    To the the non comic reading audience Terry McGinnis is the successor and a very popular one with the general public. Why cut into or complicate that?

    Although the idea of Batboyman Damian as sidekick to BatTim sound hilarious when you consider that there's only 3 years between them.
    Last edited by dietrich; 03-16-2019 at 10:53 AM.

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Doesn't that muck things for outside media stuff? Selling them on a DCU that isn't the actual DCU and is unlikely to be the DCU that's adapted for outside media. It just adds obstacles and complicates matters for no good reason.

    Why in the world would DC want the non comic reading world [which is the majority of the general public] to think that the new status quo of their biggest IP Bruce Wayne batman is Tim Drake Batman?

    To the the non comic reading audience Terry McGinnis is the successor and a very popular one with the general public. Why cut into or complicate that?

    Although the idea of Batboyman Damian as sidekick to BatTim sound hilarious when you consider that there's only 3 years between them.
    When the DCEU actors (Cavill, Affleck, Mamoa, Gadot) get too old to play their respective roles/their contract isn't renewed, DC should have their replacement actors play the legacy characters of the DC Universe, instead of having yet another "new" take on Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, etcetera. This lets them have the opportunity to have these legacy DCEU movies be a new jumping on point for audiences not acquainted with the franchise, while still being in continuity with the older films, thus not alienating long time fans.

  13. #88
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    When the DCEU actors (Cavill, Affleck, Mamoa, Gadot) get too old to play their respective roles/their contract isn't renewed, DC should have their replacement actors play the legacy characters of the DC Universe, instead of having yet another "new" take on Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, etcetera.
    Nah.

    WB will just replace them with robotic doubles that can never age (and won't require any salaries!).

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    When the DCEU actors (Cavill, Affleck, Mamoa, Gadot) get too old to play their respective roles/their contract isn't renewed, DC should have their replacement actors play the legacy characters of the DC Universe, instead of having yet another "new" take on Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, etcetera. This lets them have the opportunity to have these legacy DCEU movies be a new jumping on point for audiences not acquainted with the franchise, while still being in continuity with the older films, thus not alienating long time fans.
    Into the Spiderverse did it perfectly

    Affleck already left his role and if Rumour is to be believed DC's already planning on doing a Supergirl movie. I like the idea of legacy characters but as a business DC should go with what's favourable financially.

    Bruce Wayne as batman [hence matt Reeves doing BruceBat]
    Terry as batman.
    Dickbats.

    Those are the tried, tested and successful options. They are also most familiar to the general audience and the easiest .

    The Decu is a great jumping on point but one has to work off the basic info that the public already knows and pick the right product for your target market.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Into the Spiderverse did it perfectly

    Affleck already left his role and if Rumour is to be believed DC's already planning on doing a Supergirl movie. I like the idea of legacy characters but as a business DC should go with what's favourable financially.

    Bruce Wayne as batman [hence matt Reeves doing BruceBat]
    Terry as batman.
    Dickbats.

    Those are the tried, tested and successful options. They are also most familiar to the general audience and the easiest .

    The Decu is a great jumping on point but one has to work off the basic info that the public already knows and pick the right product for your target market.
    I think you're partially right on the issue of Batman. Partially, and I'll explain why you're not completely right later. I however don't think anyone cares about the secret identities of lesser tier characters such as Aquaman or even Wonder Woman. I think in most cases, with some semi exceptions including Batman, Superman, Iron Man, etc people care more about the superhero than their secret identity. If people really cared about the men and women (except for the most iconic characters I mentioned earlier) behind the mask and tights of the heroes they go to see on the silver screen, they would've certainly make a fuss as why Ant Man wasn't Hank Pymm or Captain Marvel wasn't Mar-Vell, but they didn't because they probably have never read the source material.

    Now onto the issue of Batman. I think a lot of the mainstream appeal of the character comes from his Bruce Wayne dual life, but I don't think it's a big enough factor to really upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put Tim Drake in the cowl.

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