How Would YOU "revamp the Bat-Family?"

[Jim Kelly]

All characters have to progress.

That seems a pretty blanket statement. Do you really think that should be the case with every fictional character? Because I can think of some that don't progress and that's just fine by me.

[oasis1313]

That seems a pretty blanket statement. Do you really think that should be the case with every fictional character? Because I can think of some that don't progress and that's just fine by me.

Not in comic books. Is it Barbara's turn to catch amnesia next?

[Timothy Hunter]

That seems a pretty blanket statement. Do you really think that should be the case with every fictional character? Because I can think of some that don't progress and that's just fine by me.

Perhaps I'll elaborate. Not all narratives have to progress. Charlies Brown and Bart Simpson will always stay the same age, but that's okay. However in a continuity as somewhat sophisticated as the DC Universe is, I think the characters should progress and age. You could make the argument that Batman and Superman should stay eternally young in the 40s or the 50s or the 60s, because their stories were fairly primative,. However as the storytelling grew more and more complex since the bronze age, and fans are holding comics to a higher standard, it seems silly for Superman to stay 25 forever.

[ngroove]

1. Focus on Bruce Wayne / Batman, Alfred Pennyworth, Damian Wayne / Robin, Richard Grayson / Nightwing, Timothy Drake / Robin, as Robin costume(s) and identity will be shared between Damian and Tim, I never cared for "Red Robin" identity, and Barbara Gordon / Batgirl. Damian's pets - Bat-Cow, Titus, Alfred - and Batman's dog, Ace - can be used every once in a while too.

2. Everyone else - they simply will not be used, seen, mentioned, in print, at least not as long as I would do it.

[dietrich]

I think you're partially right on the issue of Batman. Partially, and I'll explain why you're not completely right later. I however don't think anyone cares about the secret identities of lesser tier characters such as Aquaman or even Wonder Woman. I think in most cases, with some semi exceptions including Batman, Superman, Iron Man, etc people care more about the superhero than their secret identity. If people really cared about the men and women (except for the most iconic characters I mentioned earlier) behind the mask and tights of the heroes they go to see on the silver screen, they would've certainly make a fuss as why Ant Man wasn't Hank Pymm or Captain Marvel wasn't Mar-Vell, but they didn't because they probably have never read the source material.

Now onto the issue of Batman. I think a lot of the mainstream appeal of the character comes from his Bruce Wayne dual life, but I don't think it's a big enough factor to really upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put Tim Drake in the cowl.

I don't think it is either.

I don't think it's a big enough factor to really upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put ANYONE in the cowl.
I just think it's less likely a factor to upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put Terry or Dick in the cowl.

I think that that if DC were to change their DCEU Batman they're going to go with Dick or Terry bringing me back to the point that why confuse audiences by putting out a comic about a DCU that's unlikely to be picked for adaptation.

I'm not saying they can't or they 100% won't. I'm just saying that it probably won't.

[lucius121]

The bat family is very skewed at the moment, it should be pruned. Damian should have died in accordance with his creators plan. Jason should be outlawed in Gotham using guns and killing are counter to everything Bruce believes in. Tim should be Robin, Dick is Nightwing. Oracle should mentor Cass as batgirl. Bat woman should mentor Steph, and explore mystical threats. Duke should have been Dick’s sidekick as he seeks to do things differently to Bruce.

[Eto]

I’d like more Bruce/Dick/Jason/Tim/Damian moments.
Especailly Jason, he deserves more.

[oasis1313]

Perhaps I'll elaborate. Not all narratives have to progress. Charlies Brown and Bart Simpson will always stay the same age, but that's okay. However in a continuity as somewhat sophisticated as the DC Universe is, I think the characters should progress and age. You could make the argument that Batman and Superman should stay eternally young in the 40s or the 50s or the 60s, because their stories were fairly primative,. However as the storytelling grew more and more complex since the bronze age, and fans are holding comics to a higher standard, it seems silly for Superman to stay 25 forever.

It's like the Tales of Schereherazade and 1001 Nights.. They go on and on forever. Superman must stay 25 for all eternity; Batman must always be in his prime.

[scary harpy]

What we are dealing with now is the result of poor decisions from the TPTB.

As I understand it, more people liked Jason when he was a Flying Todd whose parents were killed by Killer Croc; they disliked the street punk he retroactively became. But this wasn't grimdark enough, I guess. The vote by phone call was pretty damn grimdark.

If Jason hadn't been killed (and he wasn't supposed to be), we would not have had Tim Drake. (I like Tim but I don't know what to do with him. By the way, we probably wouldn't have Stephanie either.)

If Barbara hadn't been left maimed (and the author didn't intend that), we would not have Cassandra Cain. (I like Cass too). But Batgirl wasn't grimdark enough (until Cassandra, that is).

The Huntress was daughter of the Bat and the Cat on Earth 2. But Crisis ended Earth 2, and, for some reason, someone thought it would be a good idea to bring Helena back...as a grimdark character. (I like both Huntresses/Helenas.)

Now let's bring back Batwoman as Kate...then let's bring back Kathy too! And let's ignore Bette for another decade! (I like Kate, Kathy and Bette.)

So now, thanks mostly to the grimdark, we have too many characters.

How do I reduce the Batfamily?

Hard reboot.

Gotham City with Bruce, Richard, Barbara and Alfred.

Breaks my heart but some characters aren't coming back...not as we know them...maybe not at all.

[Arsenal]

Hard reboot would be awful. I’d hate to see Dick reduced to the pixie boots and green panties again

[MajorHoy]

As I understand it, more people liked Jason when he was a Flying Todd whose parents were killed by Killer Croc

You mean when he was a TOTAL "Dick-clone"?
Not necessarily.

they disliked the street punk he retroactively became.

In my case, it was the whiplash effect of how much of a totally unlikable anti-Dick-clone they revised him to be that was the big problem

But this wasn't grimdark enough, I guess. The vote by phone call was pretty damn grimdark.

And there have been questions about how representative the results of phone call poll were since there were NO limits on how many votes could be made from a single phone number, only a $-charge per each call. There have been people who said the results were thrown off by a person calling multiple times with his vote to kill Jason (and I guess willing to pay the money to try and get the results he wanted).

[Timothy Hunter]

I don't think it is either.

I don't think it's a big enough factor to really upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put ANYONE in the cowl.
I just think it's less likely a factor to upset mainstream moviegoers if DC decided to put Terry or Dick in the cowl.

I think that that if DC were to change their DCEU Batman they're going to go with Dick or Terry bringing me back to the point that why confuse audiences by putting out a comic about a DCU that's unlikely to be picked for adaptation.

I'm not saying they can't or they 100% won't. I'm just saying that it probably won't.

Alright, got you.

[PCN24454]

Honestly, I think the problem isn't that the Batfam is too big. The problem (in my opinion) is that it seems that everything has to be connected to Batman at some point. The problem is Batman himself, not the other characters that, to be honest, rarely show up in Batman's own books, and are perfectly Ok in their books when they had them (or in their team books).

But people like Batman, Batman sells; so at this point, even the Marvel family is going to be included within the Batman and allies brand.

If people stops buying the books in which Batman shows even for one panel, then maybe, the characters will be free from the Batman, and Batman will stick to his own cases, not going saving the multiverse or solving the problems of some other character because he's the most popular character of his publisher. And maybe that way the characters from the batfam will grow from his shadow.

But as far as Bruce is popular, nope, not going to happen. Everything will be connected to him and he will show up in their books now and then with a relevant role. It kind of reminds me a bit of how everything had to be connected to King Arthur in Middle Ages' literature in certain places.

I second this. That’s more or less the reason why I don’t like DickBats. It shows that for all his accomplishments, he will always just be Bruce’s sidekick which I think is demeaning to his character. His existence revolves around Bruce even though he should’ve moved on by now.

[WonderNight]

I second this. That’s more or less the reason why I don’t like DickBats. It shows that for all his accomplishments, he will always just be Bruce’s sidekick which I think is demeaning to his character. His existence revolves around Bruce even though he should’ve moved on by now.

that's why I dislike dickbabs also.

[Timothy Hunter]

I don't know what all of you are talking about. Dick Grayson as Batman was the **** and more entertaining than 70% of Batman comics before he over.

In spite of this do agree that Dick should not be so dependent on the Batman franchise as a character, and should pave his own path.