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  1. #1
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    Default Earth 2 & Crime Syndicate Question (Superman #9 Spoilers)

    So, with the new Superman issue, did Superman Reborn alter the timeline so that no one from the Crime Syndicate died pre-Rebirth?

    And Ultraman mentioned "all of the times" he had tried to take the main DC Earth. Does that mean that continuity changed so that this Ultraman, introduced in New 52, now has all of the same memories as pre-New 52 Earth 3?

    If that is the case, then Superman Reborn may have altered all of the DCU and not just the main universe. So perhaps everything from New 52 Earth 2 has been lost/rewritten now... or continuity has been thrown out the window, haha.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    So, with the new Superman issue, did Superman Reborn alter the timeline so that no one from the Crime Syndicate died pre-Rebirth?

    And Ultraman mentioned "all of the times" he had tried to take the main DC Earth. Does that mean that continuity changed so that this Ultraman, introduced in New 52, now has all of the same memories as pre-New 52 Earth 3?

    If that is the case, then Superman Reborn may have altered all of the DCU and not just the main universe. So perhaps everything from New 52 Earth 2 has been lost/rewritten now... or continuity has been thrown out the window, haha.

    Thoughts?
    Due to Dr. Manhattan's tinkering, all of DCU history is currently in a state of flux and has been since Flashpoint. The return of Wally West at the start of Rebirth started changing history back and Superman Reborn changed it further. In other words, stories that previously never happened, happened again, people who were dead are alive again, memories are fuzzy, the Microverse is beseiged by time storms, and Power Girl has been trapped between Earths. Essentially, time is broken in the DCU right now.

    So, yeah, Superman has met Ultraman a bunch of times already because history now includes all the prior battles between the JLA and the Crime Syndicate, rather than a series of "first meetings".

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member TheMaker1610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    So, with the new Superman issue, did Superman Reborn alter the timeline so that no one from the Crime Syndicate died pre-Rebirth?

    And Ultraman mentioned "all of the times" he had tried to take the main DC Earth. Does that mean that continuity changed so that this Ultraman, introduced in New 52, now has all of the same memories as pre-New 52 Earth 3?

    If that is the case, then Superman Reborn may have altered all of the DCU and not just the main universe. So perhaps everything from New 52 Earth 2 has been lost/rewritten now... or continuity has been thrown out the window, haha.

    Thoughts?
    I was wondering the same thing actually
    It seems that Superman Reborn altered the continuity of the DCU as a whole, as much as Flashpoint did, changing the history of those Earths

    While I doubt there were any references to pre-new 52 Earth 3, it seems that Geoff Johns´ Crime Syndicate stuff got retconned by Bendis (Surpriseeeeee)
    Taking that in mind, I would think that Earth 2 stuff got changed as well, but we dont know how much yet (or if we even see anything regarding E2 again)

  4. #4
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    The Crime Syndicate is too good of a concept to remain dead. If they or their planet ever perish again, rest assured they will come back. Now how it happens and how good that story is will certainly summon our concern and comments. But they ain't staying dead.

    As to Earth 2, Power Girl and Huntress Wayne were there and PG is probably coming back somehow. Mr terrific's already back although he was supposed on Earth 2. But as far as Manhattan, Speed Forcing, Johnny Thundering, and whatever was happening with the multiple Supermen and Loises, who knows?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Due to Dr. Manhattan's tinkering, all of DCU history is currently in a state of flux and has been since Flashpoint. The return of Wally West at the start of Rebirth started changing history back and Superman Reborn changed it further. In other words, stories that previously never happened, happened again, people who were dead are alive again, memories are fuzzy, the Microverse is beseiged by time storms, and Power Girl has been trapped between Earths. Essentially, time is broken in the DCU right now.

    So, yeah, Superman has met Ultraman a bunch of times already because history now includes all the prior battles between the JLA and the Crime Syndicate, rather than a series of "first meetings".
    I've seen a lot of people saying that Manhattan is constantly messing with the timeline. I'd been under the impression he tampered only with Flashpoint, and plopping Comedian into the DCU. He has been doing more?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMaker1610 View Post
    I was wondering the same thing actually
    It seems that Superman Reborn altered the continuity of the DCU as a whole, as much as Flashpoint did, changing the history of those Earths

    While I doubt there were any references to pre-new 52 Earth 3, it seems that Geoff Johns´ Crime Syndicate stuff got retconned by Bendis (Surpriseeeeee)
    Taking that in mind, I would think that Earth 2 stuff got changed as well, but we dont know how much yet (or if we even see anything regarding E2 again)
    I was surprised when I came here today and didn't see anyone talking about this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about it! I'd love it if we got to see what happened to New 52 Earth 2. Maybe someday... :/
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    The Crime Syndicate is too good of a concept to remain dead. If they or their planet ever perish again, rest assured they will come back. Now how it happens and how good that story is will certainly summon our concern and comments. But they ain't staying dead.

    As to Earth 2, Power Girl and Huntress Wayne were there and PG is probably coming back somehow. Mr terrific's already back although he was supposed on Earth 2. But as far as Manhattan, Speed Forcing, Johnny Thundering, and whatever was happening with the multiple Supermen and Loises, who knows?
    Yeah, I figured they'd bring a version of them back somehow, but I was just surprised that it was the same group from New 52 (well... same costumes at least). I was even wondering if they were from another part of the multiverse and just happened to look like the crew from New 52, but when Ultraman said he'd battled Superman multiple times, I realized this was not only New 52 Ultraman, but some mix of New 52 with pre-Flashpoint.

    I think the implications of that are pretty astounding and I would HOPE realized by the team at DC. I mean, Bendis has been showing imo that he has been respecting continuity and leaving hints as to what his idea of the continuity is. Him purposefully writing the line of Ultraman having fought Supes multiple times makes me think he is aware of the scenario he has created.

    I'm at least ultra-optimistic. One of the reasons I like comics is the continuity and trying to figure out where things fit. I know most don't, but I find some weird pleasure in it, haha.

  6. #6
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinySephiroth View Post
    I've seen a lot of people saying that Manhattan is constantly messing with the timeline. I'd been under the impression he tampered only with Flashpoint, and plopping Comedian into the DCU. He has been doing more?
    It's unknown to the extent that Doc Manhattan tinkered with the DCU. When Wally West returned in Rebirth, he mentioned that whomever had stolen the years of their lives had been doing it even prior to Flashpoint, so anything is possible. The next issue of Doomsday Clock looks to be delving into that very subject.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    The Crime Syndicate is too good of a concept to remain dead. If they or their planet ever perish again, rest assured they will come back. Now how it happens and how good that story is will certainly summon our concern and comments. But they ain't staying dead.
    Heck yeah. I don't like 'hero goes dark' stories, as a rule, but 'dark reflections of the heroes' stories? Yes! Give me evil versions of Batman, Superman, etc. rather than a gritty leg-breaking interpretation of the 'Earth 1' Batman or an 'angry alien' interpretation of classic Superman.

    Plus the idea that on the Crime Syndicate Earth, there might be a super-resistance operating in hiding and under the Syndicate's radar with names like Captain Cold, Cheetah and the Joker is just too fun.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It's unknown to the extent that Doc Manhattan tinkered with the DCU. When Wally West returned in Rebirth, he mentioned that whomever had stolen the years of their lives had been doing it even prior to Flashpoint, so anything is possible. The next issue of Doomsday Clock looks to be delving into that very subject.
    Ah, I hadn't heard they were actually going to give some definitive answers. Well, that's good news!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Heck yeah. I don't like 'hero goes dark' stories, as a rule, but 'dark reflections of the heroes' stories? Yes! Give me evil versions of Batman, Superman, etc. rather than a gritty leg-breaking interpretation of the 'Earth 1' Batman or an 'angry alien' interpretation of classic Superman.

    Plus the idea that on the Crime Syndicate Earth, there might be a super-resistance operating in hiding and under the Syndicate's radar with names like Captain Cold, Cheetah and the Joker is just too fun.
    Yeah, there's just something great about them!

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    I'm extremely happy to see the Syndicate back, I hated what Johns' did especially to Superwoman. My only complaint is one I've had for several years now. Superwoman is supposed to be an Amazon, the reverse ideology of Wonder Woman. However everyone keeps making her more and more into a female version of Superman/Ultraman. Shes not supposed to have heat vision.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I'm extremely happy to see the Syndicate back, I hated what Johns' did especially to Superwoman. My only complaint is one I've had for several years now. Superwoman is supposed to be an Amazon, the reverse ideology of Wonder Woman. However everyone keeps making her more and more into a female version of Superman/Ultraman. Shes not supposed to have heat vision.
    I thought Superwoman was Earth 3's Captain Marvel/Shazam?

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I think that either Reborn or the end of Metal actually restored the Crime Syndicate's Earth. However, the events of Darkseid War did happen (as seen in both Wonder Woman and Justice League Odyssey).

    I think that Bendis is changing the nature of DC's continuity, more than ignoring it : basically, historical Events in our world (Crisis on Infinite Earth, Final crisis, etc.) have become historical events in the DCU itself. Which means that for Bendis, reboots haven't been created new continuity but changing the one continuity, which is basically applying the Marvel Formula to DC Continuity.

    Which may actually solve a lot of problem, if DC decides to us the Dark Multiverse to its full potential by putting well-developed but not well-loved worlds (like New 52's Earth 2) to be kept away but usable, if they so wishes, and if they really want to cling to "There is only 52 (53, kind off) stable worlds in the Multiverse.

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    I'm always curious whether we're seeing Earth-3 or Anti-Matter Earth when it comes to the Crime Syndicate. Of course these ones appear to be totally and tonally the same as from Geoff's Justice League run. So they could have been Rebirthed. After all, most of them were pretty dead after Forever Evil and Darkseid War. And some directly due to Doctor Manhattan. But then again there could always be the time travel thing, too. Like the black hole took Jon back to before the Anti-Monitor wracked up Earth-3, back to a time when the Syndicate were still running things. After all, if these phenomena are resulting in Jon being aged up, there's no reason to think that these phenomena are running in 1:1 time and that the Earth-3 he's visiting is during "now", when it's supposed to be an Anti-Monitor-wrecked wasteland. Especially as he's spending a significant amount of time there as a prisoner, then sneaking around.
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    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Did Grid make and appearance or Atomica?

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    I'm extremely happy to see the Syndicate back, I hated what Johns' did especially to Superwoman. My only complaint is one I've had for several years now. Superwoman is supposed to be an Amazon, the reverse ideology of Wonder Woman. However everyone keeps making her more and more into a female version of Superman/Ultraman. Shes not supposed to have heat vision.
    Superwoman is a favorite of mine!

    But, even though she is supposed to be the equal of WW, they never portray her as such. I want to see her take on some big-time heroes and win!

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    Fantastic Member mortymantis's Avatar
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    I think Bendis doesn’t care about continuity. I don’t think it has anything to do with reborn or doomsday clock.

    I’ve not been impressed with his tinkering. I like the version of the Jon Kent we had

    Also don’t forget that power ring showed up in green lanterns inside Jessica’s ring. This confirming that darkseid war happened.

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