Well, well, well, Geoff Johns MIGHT be getting his old job back

[kingaliencracker]

I think BvS was salvageable. The Director's Cut actually makes sense, which is a real step up from the incomprehensible theatrical version. Had Snyder & co. sat back and actually listened to what Nolan, Johns & Nelson were suggesting before it and Man of Steel were even released, DC wouldn't have gotten into the weeds in the first place. Unfortunately, WB inexplicably put all their chips on Snyder's vision even though the lukewarm reaction Watchmen received should have told them that his undeniable visual acumen needed to be tempered by other creative ideas that placed greater importance upon heart and humor.

Man of Steel & BvS both could have used a more streamlined narrative and humor to lighten the dour tone. I think that would have gone a long way towards getting audiences to warm to the characters in order to invest more in the visual spectacle.

The Director's Cut of BvS works better because it serves more as a direct sequel to Man of Steel. Seriously, if you take the Director's Cut and edit out all the Batman stuff, it's actually a pretty good follow-up to MoS. The problem is they shoehorned Batman into a Superman movie as a villain, then edited it to make it a Batman movie where he goes after Superman. It made no sense from a creative standpoint.

Admittedly, I enjoyed BvS the Director's Cut. I agree the movie was salvageable. But it doesn't change the fact that it got luke warm reaction both critically and at the box office, and WB should have moved on from Snyder afterwards.

[Agent Z]

I just want to say that the people who are practically praying for Johns to be involved with the movies are the same ones who were wailing and gnashing their teeth over Titans. Johns' output is not at all that different from Snyder's. I'm not saying him being involved in the movies will be bad but if you're hoping he'll be any different from Snyder, you are likely in for a rude awakening.

[Hatut Zeraze]

As a fan, my priority is comics over movies and TV shows. The Shazam! comic might be my favorite thing I have ever read by Johns, so at the moment I don't want him to have any job except comic book writer.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Agree and disagree with some things said here:

- I had minor quibbles with Man of Steel, but overall I loved it. I loved the more serious, contemplative take on a character I was so familiar with, and I would absolutely be AGAINST any shoehorning in of humor in order to "lighten up" the film. To use a millennial term, forced humor moments are always cringey to me.

- I agree with those who feel Johns should NOT have anything to do with the DC Films. He's a writer/comic book guy, and I'm getting a little tired of comic book guys thinking they're going to play Hollywood mogul. If you don't know how to make a movie, don't make movies. Getting Richard Donner's coffee does not a movie mogul make. However, I do think comic book guys can be successful in television, which is a writer-driven medium as opposed to film, which is a director-driven (and now a producer-driven) medium.

- As far as Hollywood scandals is concerned, this Tsujihara thing is one of the least scandalous. What we have is a movie exec using his pull to get his girlfriend a few minor movie parts. At best. If we weren't in the middle of the #metoo movement, the Tsujihara thing would have been completely ignored as it has been since time immemorial in Hollywood. Producers and Directors giving roles to their flavors of the month is hardly breaking news. I don't know who the hell is going to hire Charlotte Kirk after this. Whatever projects she has in the pipeline will likely be the end of a short, undistinguished career.

I think whoever replaces Tsujihara will be an existing Warner exec, and they would have no reason to replace Walter Hamada as President of DC Films especially in the wake of Aquaman's success, which he gets to put on his resume whether he really had anything to do with it or not.

Johns is a good comic book writer. Keep him there. Let him use his first-look deal with Warner Bros. to dabble in film.

[jetengine]

IAnd I don't believe for a second that it was too late to move in a different direction in terms of director following BvS. Justice League was released almost 2 years after BvS, there was plenty of time to hire someone else. Someone in WB was clearly behind Zack Snyder until they weren't.

You do realise the issue isnt the release date, more that Snyder started filming JL straight after BvS. By the time the BvS run had ended and the money was found to be much less then expected they couldnt do anything. He'd already filmed a good third of the movie (if not more) abd as you said there were people in his camp saying "Dont worry this can work" until it was clear, no its garbage. Then they rished so they could get their bonuses etc.

[Johnny]

Agree and disagree with some things said here:

- I had minor quibbles with Man of Steel, but overall I loved it. I loved the more serious, contemplative take on a character I was so familiar with, and I would absolutely be AGAINST any shoehorning in of humor in order to "lighten up" the film. To use a millennial term, forced humor moments are always cringey to me.

- I agree with those who feel Johns should NOT have anything to do with the DC Films. He's a writer/comic book guy, and I'm getting a little tired of comic book guys thinking they're going to play Hollywood mogul. If you don't know how to make a movie, don't make movies. Getting Richard Donner's coffee does not a movie mogul make. However, I do think comic book guys can be successful in television, which is a writer-driven medium as opposed to film, which is a director-driven (and now a producer-driven) medium.

- As far as Hollywood scandals is concerned, this Tsujihara thing is one of the least scandalous. What we have is a movie exec using his pull to get his girlfriend a few minor movie parts. At best. If we weren't in the middle of the #metoo movement, the Tsujihara thing would have been completely ignored as it has been since time immemorial in Hollywood. Producers and Directors giving roles to their flavors of the month is hardly breaking news. I don't know who the hell is going to hire Charlotte Kirk after this. Whatever projects she has in the pipeline will likely be the end of a short, undistinguished career.

I think whoever replaces Tsujihara will be an existing Warner exec, and they would have no reason to replace Walter Hamada as President of DC Films especially in the wake of Aquaman's success, which he gets to put on his resume whether he really had anything to do with it or not.

Johns is a good comic book writer. Keep him there. Let him use his first-look deal with Warner Bros. to dabble in film.

That's one of the most ironic aspects of Johns' brief stint as co-head of the DCEU. Aquaman was basically as much his baby as it was James Wan's. And Johns would never get any credit for it now because of what happened with Justice League. He was heavily involved with Shazam too and if it becomes a success, he won't be credited for that either. He won't get any amount of credit for those movies that is in any way comparable to the blame he gets for JL.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I just want to say that the people who are practically praying for Johns to be involved with the movies are the same ones who were wailing and gnashing their teeth over Titans. Johns' output is not at all that different from Snyder's. I'm not saying him being involved in the movies will be bad but if you're hoping he'll be any different from Snyder, you are likely in for a rude awakening.

While the Titans TV show isn't really to my tastes, at least it managed to pull off the ridiculously grimdark tone better than Snyder did

Plus, I'm not going to hold one show I don't care for against two movies that were pretty fun and a bunch of other TV shows I also enjoy.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

That's one of the most ironic aspects of Johns' brief stint as co-head of the DCEU. Aquaman was basically as much his baby as it was James Wan's. And Johns would never get any credit for it now because of what happened with Justice League. He was heavily involved with Shazam too and if it becomes a success, he won't be credited for that either. He won't get any amount of credit for those movies that is in any way comparable to the blame he gets for JL.

Unfortunately, that's the way Hollywood works. Had Suicide Squad not been garbage, he would have gotten a lot of the credit for its success even though he had little to do with it.

[Anthony Shaw]

I think BvS was salvageable. The Director's Cut actually makes sense, which is a real step up from the incomprehensible theatrical version. Had Snyder & co. sat back and actually listened to what Nolan, Johns & Nelson were suggesting before it and Man of Steel were even released, DC wouldn't have gotten into the weeds in the first place. Unfortunately, WB inexplicably put all their chips on Snyder's vision even though the lukewarm reaction Watchmen received should have told them that his undeniable visual acumen needed to be tempered by other creative ideas that placed greater importance upon heart and humor.

What did they suggest?

The destruction porn in MOS might as well have been the Saiyan Saga, imo.

Man of Steel & BvS both could have used a more streamlined narrative and humor to lighten the dour tone. I think that would have gone a long way towards getting audiences to warm to the characters in order to invest more in the visual spectacle.

I wish more time was spent on Clark creating a life for himself in Metropolis, as opposed to being a drifter who suddenly became a reporter, and in a full blown relationship with Lois. The Snyder version is the least interesting Superman I've ever seen. Henry Cavill deserved more.

[Agent Z]

edited post.

[Agent Z]

While the Titans TV show isn't really to my tastes, at least it managed to pull off the ridiculously grimdark tone better than Snyder did

I'd say they're about the same but I like both so that's me.


Glad you enjoyed the other movies and shows.

[BohemiaDrinker]

While the Titans TV show isn't really to my tastes, at least it managed to pull off the ridiculously grimdark tone better than Snyder did

I disagree. Titans mischaracterizes most characters worst than Snyder did in the movies.

OTOH, Doom Patrol doesn't have the right to be as good as it is.

So it's more a matter of choices taken with the properties than of competence in itself.

[BatmanJones]

As a fan, my priority is comics over movies and TV shows. The Shazam! comic might be my favorite thing I have ever read by Johns, so at the moment I don't want him to have any job except comic book writer.

I'm a huge Geoff Johns fan and nothing would make me happier than to have him back as a full-time comic writer. I think he's also better at guiding the DC Comics universe than Didio or Lee.

[BatmanJones]

While the Titans TV show isn't really to my tastes, at least it managed to pull off the ridiculously grimdark tone better than Snyder did

I'd say they both had the same fundamental problem...

In trying so hard to be serious and profound they each came off as parodies of themselves. Titans is silly and it makes me cringe but I can still appreciate it here and there, mostly for the treatments of Hawk/Dove, Jason Todd, and Donna Troy. I only ever cringe at Snyder's attempts at seriousness in the DCEU.

And this is from someone that can't get enough of dark takes on superheroes and someone that will defend Identity Crisis until my dying day.

Snyder's DCEU was more akin to Robinson's awful Cry for Justice than any other comic series to me.

[ChrisG]

I'm a huge Geoff Johns fan and nothing would make me happier than to have him back as a full-time comic writer. I think he's also better at guiding the DC Comics universe than Didio or Lee.

That would be great, however we fans never learn, they continue to take us for granted and we meekly accept the fact, thats why the likes of didio are still in place.