Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 61 to 71 of 71
  1. #61
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's been, what, an hour to a few hours since the guy's son got home aged to roughly 17 with a harrowing story about his travels? Pretty sure "angst" is the response here. Confusion, sadness, and some anger are what he and Lois should be and are feeling right now. How they deal with it comes later, but for now it's a shock that's still sinking in.
    The correct response? Yes. What should be the driving force of Jon's story? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Can't say I really felt that at all once Jon started telling his story. Last issue in particular was in service of Jon's character and no one else's. And I recently had a debate going over this, and I felt like issue 9 of Superman doesn't work unless you've followed Jon as a character till this point. As a character he's always had some from of a support system ready to take whatever burden he's under. Funny enough, it's always characters that are older than him (his dad, mom, and Damian in particular), and DC always seemed to like to dangle the idea that he could be corrupted and turned against his dad and good in general (Black Dawn). So I had a particularly strong sense of catharsis when Jon, trapped on another universe with dwindling powers, no adults or older kids coming to help, held captive by an evil version of his dad who wants to corrupt him, has a coming of age and becomes a man before my eyes.

    You may feel totally different--and that's cool--but I'd say that's in direct service to his character.
    Issue 9 had potential, but it was packing about a story arcs worth of ideas into rushed narration that was already truncated by a rather pointless fantasy. As it stands, it's rushed and nothing your suggesting about danger Jon was facing really came across. And again, the aging up is erroneous there. You don't need to age 7 years to have a coming of age moment. In fact, I'd argue if you need a character to age 7 years to have a coming of age moment, you're not really having a coming of age moment, you're cutting corners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Well, sure. I mean, I'm not actively telling YOU to wait and see. I don't have nor do I particularly want control of what you do and do not buy with your money and read with your time. I'm saying that these issues are quite transparent about the fact their focus being sparely on Jon's flashbacks and Clark and Lois' reactions to his flashbacks and only his physical appearance. If the issues expressed that they were also interested in the specifics of present day Jon, then I'd take some umbrage with not seeing some stuff, but they don't, thus I don't, and I wait till they do. My choice. Doesn't have to be yours though.
    Personally, it's irrelevant to me. Even if Bendis tells the best stories with Jon in the world (which I'm not optimistic about), we, as fans, were still robbed of watching him grow up and reach all those milestones Bendis just glossed over. It's a sucky way to treat a character, especially one who was already the center of a beloved series. I have never personally been more frustrated and disappointed with a choice made by DC comics. And I'm a Wally West fan.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

  2. #62
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    The correct response? Yes. What should be the driving force of Jon's story? No.
    But it's not the driving force of Jon's story even now. It's a large aspect for sure, but not the point as we've been shown in the books. In ever single issue after 6 we are told that the driving force is essentially Jon's maturation, and his character crossing a threshold. Lobo correcting him when Jon insisted on being called Superboy by saying "you're a man when you decide to be. No one's handing out certificates.", Jon's insecurities about having to be be a man and one day live up to his father's legacy, and Jon expecting to be bailed out. Something that I've noticed is that Bendis keeps hammering home the idea that space is far bigger than what I characters seem to assume. That vastness even proves too much for Clark early on when he has no idea where to look. Jon having to come of age in space and on other Earths away from his watchful eyes of his father, mother, and Damian allowed a true solo test that he passed with flying colors, and an answer to his questions of if he'd be ready to be "that guy" when the time finally came. This is also why the duration of time can't just be a few months. In that case, it's a short burst of manhood followed by returning to Earth and realizing "oh yeah, I'm like 10." This was Jon being "that guy" over a long, long time.

    It's almost beat for beat Jon's hero's journey.

    Side note (for those who care): the fact that Jon's story is so very much a hero's journey makes wonder if Bendis will have him interact with Naomi on a meaningful level. He and Walker (co creator/co writer) have, at almost every turn, described Naomi's book as her going through the hero's journey. That seems deliberate as I don't see it being so directly tackled in any of his other characters but these two. Literary food for thought.

    As it stands, it's rushed and nothing your suggesting about danger Jon was facing really came across.
    That's fine if you feel that way. I didn't. As a fan of the character since 2016's Superman issue 1, I disagree.

    Personally, it's irrelevant to me.
    This is totally fine. How you feel about it is totally valid. I do agree that I'd really dig seeing more of his childhood especially now with all of his new unique lore. That should be mined out for some story. Really hoping for book specifically for going into that in the near future.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


    -Coffee That

    PM me if you tryina mix it up in SFV (and Dragon Ball FighterZ). Just know: the hypa bomb takes no prisoners.

  3. #63
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    683

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Personally, it's irrelevant to me. Even if Bendis tells the best stories with Jon in the world (which I'm not optimistic about), we, as fans, were still robbed of watching him grow up and reach all those milestones Bendis just glossed over. It's a sucky way to treat a character, especially one who was already the center of a beloved series. I have never personally been more frustrated and disappointed with a choice made by DC comics. And I'm a Wally West fan.
    Completely agree. This direction is just too rushed and lazy to be satisfying. So much potential got squandered.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But it's not the driving force of Jon's story even now. It's a large aspect for sure, but not the point as we've been shown in the books. In ever single issue after 6 we are told that the driving force is essentially Jon's maturation, and his character crossing a threshold. Lobo correcting him when Jon insisted on being called Superboy by saying "you're a man when you decide to be. No one's handing out certificates.", Jon's insecurities about having to be be a man and one day live up to his father's legacy, and Jon expecting to be bailed out. Something that I've noticed is that Bendis keeps hammering home the idea that space is far bigger than what I characters seem to assume. That vastness even proves too much for Clark early on when he has no idea where to look. Jon having to come of age in space and on other Earths away from his watchful eyes of his father, mother, and Damian allowed a true solo test that he passed with flying colors, and an answer to his questions of if he'd be ready to be "that guy" when the time finally came. This is also why the duration of time can't just be a few months. In that case, it's a short burst of manhood followed by returning to Earth and realizing "oh yeah, I'm like 10." This was Jon being "that guy" over a long, long time.

    It's almost beat for beat Jon's hero's journey.
    What makes a person man isn't one defining moment. It's a gradual build of experiences and mistakes. Facing Ultraman could have been a great moment for Jon, but it would have had to be in a much better story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    That's fine if you feel that way. I didn't. As a fan of the character since 2016's Superman issue 1, I disagree.
    I'm not sure what being a fan of the character since the beginning of rebirth has to do with issue 9 of this series being rushed and really selling the threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    This is totally fine. How you feel about it is totally valid. I do agree that I'd really dig seeing more of his childhood especially now with all of his new unique lore. That should be mined out for some story. Really hoping for book specifically for going into that in the near future.
    Not for me. Jon Kent spending 7 years isolated in space away from everything and everyone he knows. Hard pass.

    I want Jon Kent on Earth, balancing the trials of growing up with going to school and superhero adventures. Basically, I want Super Sons back.

    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Completely agree. This direction is just too rushed and lazy to be satisfying. So much potential got squandered.
    Yeah, Bendis couldn't have chosen a less interesting and unoriginal path to take. And age ups have never worked well in science fiction. They are just generally signs of "we don't actually want to put the work into writing a preteen character."
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

  5. #65
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    What makes a person man isn't one defining moment. It's a gradual build of experiences and mistakes. Facing Ultraman could have been a great moment for Jon, but it would have had to be in a much better story.
    Yes, but this is fiction. Defining moments like are the deal. But even outside of that, Jon still spent years on his own making mistakes and doing his best. That moment in the volcano was the crossing of the threshold. The cathartic and identifiable moment.

    I'm not sure what being a fan of the character since the beginning of rebirth has to do with issue 9 of this series being rushed and really selling the threat.
    If you thought it was rushed or not good, that's cool. I'm not actually arguing that. Like at all. I'm just point out specifically how we don't agree on the matter.

    Not for me. Hard pass.
    Cool.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


    -Coffee That

    PM me if you tryina mix it up in SFV (and Dragon Ball FighterZ). Just know: the hypa bomb takes no prisoners.

  6. #66
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,281

    Default

    Jon's transformation is like... the Supergirl B plot of June. I'm way more into her finally getting a significant piece of the pie than how that plays out.

    Year One to me means a promising back up if both Zaar and Leviathan fall through. I'm not my most excited but there's plenty going on.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  7. #67
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Yes, but this is fiction. Defining moments like are the deal. But even outside of that, Jon still spent years on his own making mistakes and doing his best. That moment in the volcano was the crossing of the threshold. The cathartic and identifiable moment.
    Good fiction connects to reality. Honestly, I don't think the moment has the impact you say it does. And if it is meant to be everything you say it is, it fails spectacularly in lot of ways. It's unrealistic, glossed over, and unearned. Really unearned. Actually, I'm liking it less and less the more I think about it.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Good fiction connects to reality. Honestly, I don't think the moment has the impact you say it does. And if it is meant to be everything you say it is, it fails spectacularly in lot of ways. It's unrealistic, glossed over, and unearned. Really unearned. Actually, I'm liking it less and less the more I think about it.
    That's not always the case. Tolkien and Rowling, among others have proven that.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    That's not always the case. Tolkien and Rowling, among others have proven that.
    Harry Potter? Harry Potter takes place in a Wizarding world, but the themes are incredibly reflective of the real world. You got racism, adolescence, etc.

    And Tolkien? This is a guy who fought in World War I and is writing about bands of men fighting against impossible odds and bonding through adversity.

    Point is both works are in the fantasy genre, but are hugely connected to reality.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

  10. #70
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,959

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Honestly, I don't think the moment has the impact you say it does. And if it is meant to be everything you say it is, it fails spectacularly in lot of ways. It's unrealistic, glossed over, and unearned. Really unearned. Actually, I'm liking it less and less the more I think about it.
    And I'm totally ok with you having that reaction. I mean, I'd rather anyone have fun with a thing. But if you don't, then that's cool.
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

    "Your videos give us hope. They give us strength in these times of slow normals, Chun-Li costumes and rampant New York fires.
    We shall overcome. The day will come when we are all warmed up."


    -Coffee That

    PM me if you tryina mix it up in SFV (and Dragon Ball FighterZ). Just know: the hypa bomb takes no prisoners.

  11. #71
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    And I'm totally ok with you having that reaction. I mean, I'd rather anyone have fun with a thing. But if you don't, then that's cool.
    Actually, the problem is that it is not cool that I'm not having fun with this thing. But I know what you mean.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Teen Titans, Justice League, Doomsday Clock, Justice League Dark, Aquaman

    Image: Lazarus, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, Go Go Power Rangers

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •