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  1. #16
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Nontroversies are amusing.
    Ha! "Nontroversies".

    I'ma use that one.
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  2. #17
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Whilst I disagree with the critics interpretation (as the OG artist points out before it all goes to hell, the visual center is the to-be-executed furies head not Lashinas costume strap) the incredibly unprofessional antics by the artist, his friend and the Marvel EIC are ridiculous.

    I say this as someone who doesn't even like the Female Furies book and think its a neat idea terribly executed.

  3. #18
    BANNED HATEISFOREVER's Avatar
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    Still,it needs to be said that alot of these people pop up looking to get attention with their criticisms. Then when the artist gets fired up. The quick hot tag is labeling "toxic.male culture ". It's the same people that accused stan lee of creating women with weak powers. IE. Invisible woman and Jean Grey. Which is hugely false given each one is the most powerful member of their respective teams.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Still,it needs to be said that alot of these people pop up looking to get attention with their criticisms. Then when the artist gets fired up. The quick hot tag is labeling "toxic.male culture ". It's the same people that accused stan lee of creating women with weak powers. IE. Invisible woman and Jean Grey. Which is hugely false given each one is the most powerful member of their respective teams.
    Historical context is a thing as well. Sue and Jean may look problematic from todays perspective but at the time they were fairly radical when 90% of wimen were swooning, kidnapped GFs or femme fatale villains.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Still,it needs to be said that alot of these people pop up looking to get attention with their criticisms. Then when the artist gets fired up. The quick hot tag is labeling "toxic.male culture ". It's the same people that accused stan lee of creating women with weak powers. IE. Invisible woman and Jean Grey. Which is hugely false given each one is the most powerful member of their respective teams.
    Even if that were the case, I seriously doubt this woman made this criticism just because she wanted attention, especially given the type of attention she got.

    Also, it was other writers who made Jean and Sue more powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Historical context is a thing as well. Sue and Jean may look problematic from todays perspective but at the time they were fairly radical when 90% of wimen were swooning, kidnapped GFs or femme fatale villains.
    The former two certainly describe Sue in the earlier FF comics.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Nontroversies are amusing.
    Agreed.
    This is quite stupid.
    It's trying to make something out of nothing. Which is absurd and does more to discredit complaints against actual real offensive covers.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The guy tweeted at her eight times despite her making it clear she was not changing her mind, got a bunch of other writers to dog pile her and she's the crazy one?

    Bare in mind all she did was criticize the cover. He was the one who sought her out.
    Is she not a critic? Critics want attention. She got it. She wanted the artist to agree with her. He didn't. Check it out he was nothing but respectful and Napier was petulant.

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    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  8. #23
    BANNED HATEISFOREVER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Even if that were the case, I seriously doubt this woman made this criticism just because she wanted attention, especially given the type of attention she got.

    Also, it was other writers who made Jean and Sue more powerful.



    The former two certainly describe Sue in the earlier FF comics.
    Even so,how many female characters in that era were being made? Beyond wonder woman? Exactly,pretty much none at all.

    Its just become now the thing to do where certain people who i have serious doubts as comicbook fans,just "critique" to the point of getting a reaction.

    If i explain myself over and over contrary but you continue to see it your way to the point you won't let it go and it affects earning potential in the slightest, yeah i am gonna get angry. Frank Tieri angry?? No

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Even so,how many female characters in that era were being made? Beyond wonder woman? Exactly,pretty much none at all.
    Is this supposed to be high praise? Just having female characters in your story means nothing if they're poorly written.


    Its just become now the thing to do where certain people who i have serious doubts as comicbook fans,just "critique" to the point of getting a reaction.
    Again, what is your evidence that this was Napier's goal here? There's nothing to indicate she even wanted a conversation with Panosian.


    If i explain myself over and over contrary but you continue to see it your way to the point you won't let it go and it affects earning potential in the slightest, yeah i am gonna get angry. Frank Tieri angry?? No
    If you explain yourself to somebody and they don't change their minds, then it is probably a good idea to leave the conversation entirely. It's not like Panosian was the only person who might have had an issue with this cover why get so bent out of shape over it? How many comic book artists do what Panosian did when their work gets criticized?

  10. #25
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Even so,how many female characters in that era were being made? Beyond wonder woman? Exactly,pretty much none at all.
    Is this supposed to be high praise? Just having female characters in your story means nothing if they're poorly written.
    But that's using 21st century standards to judge mid-20th century comic book stories.

    That's like complaining about the lack of female U.S. senators back before the 19th amendment was passed. Yeah, it would have been nice if there had been more powerful lead female characters back in the early days of the Silver Age of comic books, but having more recurring female characters present was the first step.

  11. #26
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    The criticism was silly, but everything that came after with Tieri is really unacceptable.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But that's using 21st century standards to judge mid-20th century comic book stories.
    Lack of female characters/poorly written female characters were considered a problem back then. It's why Marston created Wonder Woman.


    That's like complaining about the lack of female U.S. senators back before the 19th amendment was passed. Yeah, it would have been nice if there had been more powerful lead female characters back in the early days of the Silver Age of comic books, but having more recurring female characters present was the first step.
    Which was not the poster's original point.

    Quote Originally Posted by HATEISFOREVER View Post
    Still,it needs to be said that alot of these people pop up looking to get attention with their criticisms. Then when the artist gets fired up. The quick hot tag is labeling "toxic.male culture ". It's the same people that accused stan lee of creating women with weak powers. IE. Invisible woman and Jean Grey. Which is hugely false given each one is the most powerful member of their respective teams.
    The poster was trying to attribute Jean and Sue's high power levels to Lee ignoring that he did not create them that way.

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Ha! "Nontroversies".

    I'ma use that one.
    X 2

    I’m feeling so hip and happenin’ lol

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    The criticism was silly, but everything that came after with Tieri is really unacceptable.

    Actually Tieri was simply responding to being called a "sh##heel" by internet tough guy Marc-Oliver Frisch for consoling his friend. Frisch would later apologize when it turned out that words have consequences and Tieri took him seriously. Here is Frisch realizing that maybe it's not a good idea to say something to someone that you wouldn't say to their face If they were right there https://mobile.twitter.com/knallkult...29572197998592
    Last edited by Anthony W; 03-17-2019 at 02:41 PM.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

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