How do you feel about the top of Marvel "power tiers" changing?

[Killerbee911]

Comic books fantasy is often about creating a niche and owning it, The top heroes are generally owners of their niche.Being number two is nice but number one is the place you want to be. I have always cringed when Mr Terrific is introduced as the "third smartest man in DC" and yeah yes in away it establish a niche for him in comic book world as smart character but it also knocks the character down a peg at the same time. So all of that to say where a character ?seen in a world does have some importance.

Which bring us to main part many characters have build their names and popularity on these roles "Thor is generally seen as the most powerful Marvel superhero" "Hulk is seen as the Strongest" "Reed Richards is seen as smartest" " Captain America greatest leader" etc. And for many years they have held these roles in stories and play those roles in big stories so beyond being just attached to character it feels like it might be tied to core of what Marvel is to some fans

1. Do you think the tiers should ever change? Example Iron Man was very smart character at the beginning but he seem like a generalist being smart in the area of robotics and tech. As Iron Man grew in popularity,his role in stories changed and he got more and more feats of genius. To point today you could make an argument for him being the smartest man in Marvel.


2. Should there ever be a clear top character in a universe anything? Or do you like when more characters have a chance at being the top guy? Example the best hand to hand fighter in Marvel varies from Shang chi ,Iron Fist, Captain America or Black Panther( and couple more quite honestly.)


3. What gets you to accept a change? Is when Marvel goes "Moon Girl is the smartest character in Marvel"? Do you need to see couple of feats? Is it more over time you have earn your dues like say Iron Man did?


Final thought these question came up to me as I noticed people complaining about Captain Marvel being too powerful in the MCU especially in comparison Thor. It felt a little weird because they are other being around more powerful than Thor so it isn't out of realm of possibility someone can be more powerful . I feel like there is good discussion to be had here.

[dreyga2000]

Don't pay too much mind to it. Power levels change to suit the story. And characters tend to get more powerful when they get more popular. As long as they are in acceptable certain range that allows for their stories to be read properly I'm good.

[Snoop Dogg]

Taking power levels and feats and rankings and positions too seriously is limiting. That being said, ALF is the most powerful Marvel character.

[Matternativ]

Don't pay too much mind to it. Power levels change to suit the story. And characters tend to get more powerful when they get more popular. As long as they are in acceptable certain range that allows for their stories to be read properly I'm good.

This!

Though I will say I do think there should be actual feats to prove that.
In All New Hawkeye, Lemire went on and on about how great Kate Bishop was but she never really did anything besides being super pissy throughout the entire run.

Yet in a vision from the future she's said to be considered as reliable as someone like Captain America just to run into the first ambush she comes across right after.

Long story short: the story should not contradict what's being said about the characters. You don't see Iron Man failing at simple maths either.

[XPac]

I do think it was a bit jarrng when the recent Shuri book established that she was some sort of tech genius. It was an obvious attempt at synergy with the movie, but it's not a trait they even hinted at in the comics since her debut. I won't go so far as to say that it bothered me.... but it wasn't quite consistant with what I previously new about the character.

I guess that's where it becomes an issue. If it somehow conflicts with what I previously knew, it might be an issue. The degree to which if conflicts determines how big an issue it is. Moon Girl is a brand new character so establishing her as the smartest doesn't conflict with anything. If they were to hypothetically say Spider-Man was the smartest, it might surprise me but I wouldnt' necessarily bother me that much because in the least they have established that he was really really smart all along. But if they were to suddenly say Colossus or Gambit was the smartest person on the Marvel universe, I'd be going WTF.

[mugiwara]

Taking power levels and feats and rankings and positions too seriously is limiting. That being said, ALF is the most powerful Marvel character.

That's true. He eats Flerken for breakfast.

[MyriVerse]

The problem is... all of the potential replacements are just horribad. So, no! They should be written in virtual stone.

[Kusanagi]

Don't pay too much mind to it. Power levels change to suit the story. And characters tend to get more powerful when they get more popular. As long as they are in acceptable certain range that allows for their stories to be read properly I'm good.

Nailed my thoughts

So long as powers don't fluctuate to the point of being jarring, and taking me out of the story, I don't pay the levels too much mind.

[Holt]

Never cared about rankings since it's all arbitrary. How powerful a character is depends entirely on the needs of the story. If Hawkeye needs to beat the Hulk for some story related reason, Hawkeye will likely win, no matter what the stats on the back of his Fleer trading card say.

[ed2962]

On one hand I like the idea of a character having one thing that makes them special, on the other hand specific power levels aren't the most important thing. It's not going to make the art in the comic better. Its not going to make the scripts more clever.

[JudicatorPrime]

Comic books fantasy is often about creating a niche and owning it, The top heroes are generally owners of their niche.Being number two is nice but number one is the place you want to be. I have always cringed when Mr Terrific is introduced as the "third smartest man in DC" and yeah yes in away it establish a niche for him in comic book world as smart character but it also knocks the character down a peg at the same time. So all of that to say where a character ?seen in a world does have some importance.

Which bring us to main part many characters have build their names and popularity on these roles "Thor is generally seen as the most powerful Marvel superhero" "Hulk is seen as the Strongest" "Reed Richards is seen as smartest" " Captain America greatest leader" etc. And for many years they have held these roles in stories and play those roles in big stories so beyond being just attached to character it feels like it might be tied to core of what Marvel is to some fans

1. Do you think the tiers should ever change? Example Iron Man was very smart character at the beginning but he seem like a generalist being smart in the area of robotics and tech. As Iron Man grew in popularity,his role in stories changed and he got more and more feats of genius. To point today you could make an argument for him being the smartest man in Marvel.


2. Should there ever be a clear top character in a universe anything? Or do you like when more characters have a chance at being the top guy? Example the best hand to hand fighter in Marvel varies from Shang chi ,Iron Fist, Captain America or Black Panther( and couple more quite honestly.)


3. What gets you to accept a change? Is when Marvel goes "Moon Girl is the smartest character in Marvel"? Do you need to see couple of feats? Is it more over time you have earn your dues like say Iron Man did?


Final thought these question came up to me as I noticed people complaining about Captain Marvel being too powerful in the MCU especially in comparison Thor. It felt a little weird because they are other being around more powerful than Thor so it isn't out of realm of possibility someone can be more powerful . I feel like there is good discussion to be had here.

1. Yes. To think otherwise is not a very egalitarian proposition. Besides, never forget that Odin gave Thor a hammer because he knew that without it Thor is not the most powerful. Indeed, Odin knew that even with Mjolnir, Thor would be hard-pressed to defend the kingdom against their enemies and would eventually fall. Dare we argue with the Allfather's logic? In having beings -- both good and bad -- more powerful than Thor, Marvel is simply reaffirming Odin's prescient view.

2. No. In real life there truly is no way to quantify superlatives. What it usually comes down to is feats and perception, with perception ruling the roost. But perception is only reality until someone gives you a healthy dose of their truths. We see this sort of thing all of the time in boxing. Undisputed "world" champion without equal gets his ass handed to him by a little known challenger from the poor side of town. A renowned martial arts grandmaster gets his head handed to him by some unknown hermit. It's fatuity of the highest order to assume the people that we've crowned are truly king. True exceptionalism is almost always hidden in the most common of corners.

3. When proponents of the status quo stop griping and moaning about the treatment of their pet characters. They've had almost a hundred years of having their world views reinforced in the pages of comics, so if they can accept a particular change, I can. Even if it's not a popular change.

[MadFacedKid]

My only issue with power tiers is if a character performs in a way that's out of the norm and is never given an explanation to why so. Like I have no problem with She Hulk matching The Immortal Hulk because we know Jen isn't her classic green self and has had a power up. Namor being able to take on the Avengers needs an explanation that I'm sure we'll hopefully get.

I don't mind intelligence changing I feel like anyone can outsmart or learn things constantly to become smarter than the last guy. I feel like Reed should be defacta #1 given the nature of his powers in relation to his intelligence but Doom doesnt have to be #2. If tue story requires it I could see characters like Banmer or Pym outsmarting him hopefully in an applausible way.

Keeping characters at a power tier and never changing it up sounds pretty bland. I don't think disregarding power tiers is good either because I find the inconsitincy off-putting when reading a comic.

[Ezyo1000]

It's hard to quantify who the greatest, or smartest or whatever is. Because a story can undo that instantly. Sometimes saying s character is the best at X on a story is then used to hype up a new villain or new hero by having this new character do something that throws out the order. There are ways around it though. For instance, the greatest martial artist has a lot of contender's for the top spot. So much it would be hard to say who truly is the best. However, let's take Tchalla and Shang chi
In terms of H2h I would say Shang is better because that's his specialty being the Master of Kung Fu, however, who is the better warrior? Tchalla. Why? Because he has trained in every known martial arts as well as African martial arts only known on Wakanda, as well as trained in a multitude of weapons both Melee and firearms as well as being a military leader.

Does that take anything away from either? No. But it gives a way to say one is the best at a particular thing of you wanted without knocking other characters.

[Digifiend]

My only issue with power tiers is if a character performs in a way that's out of the norm and is never given an explanation to why so. Like I have no problem with She Hulk matching The Immortal Hulk because we know Jen isn't her classic green self and has had a power up. Namor being able to take on the Avengers needs an explanation that I'm sure we'll hopefully get.

We already did - he got a power up too, by stealing Hydro Man's powers.

[XPac]

On one hand I like the idea of a character having one thing that makes them special, on the other hand specific power levels aren't the most important thing. It's not going to make the art in the comic better. Its not going to make the scripts more clever.

I think for certain specific characters, being ranked as something can be important because it's part of their gimmick. Moon Girl and Cho for example both probably need that in part to help establish them, and in part because it's almost their identifying aspect.

Whereas Reed for example has so many feats under his belt, dropping a rank or two doesn't really effect him MUCH. You basically don't even need to say where he ranks, because people just KNOW he's an established big brain.