Is reading the infinite crisis still worth it (as a starting point) ?

[BatmanJones]

Also, I skipped Forever Evil: Blight but added to my reading list on your suggestion. Thanks.

[ConnorHawke]

Hi Lillumultipas,

I'm a long-term reader too, beginning a little before you, by the sounds of it.
It's my opinion that the late '70s to the early '00s have been the best of the modern period, and things began to go downhill from around 2002 onwards, with some great exceptions.
I found the DCU to become far too addicted to constant "next best things", "new status quo" etc, at an accelerating frequency, until we're left in the state we are in now where nobody seems to know what the status quo is, what the histoy is etc. Of course all of this started with Crisis, but it has continued to accelerate ever since.

I myself enjoyed Infinite Crisis at the time, and the 52 / One Year Later initiative after that began well, but soon turned out to be, much like other initiatives that followed it, fairly ill-conceived and far too transitory, quickly being swiped aside for another "next best thing".
The New 52 itself had some great new concepts, however these were cancelled out by drastic and unnecessary changes to histories and back stories, and the sour taste left by deleting and altering fan-favourite characters and histories. One example would be Justice League Dark / Demon Knights / I, Vampire / Frankenstein.

The Knightfall to New Gotham period is an interesting one for Batman (1992-2000), the Superman triangle period is fun (1990?-2000), Wonder Woman in the early '00s is great. Wally West Flash was consistently good for most of volume 2. Suicide Squad from 1987 is great. The JLA / JSA titles from 1996 to 2003 are a real treat, as are the other JSA books of the time: Starman / Stars and STRIPE / Hourman / Dr Midnite. Reading the Batman/Nightwing/Robin/Catwoman/Birds of Prey corner was consistently fun, although sometimes sketchy.
Rucka did a great version of Checkmate in 2006, but the majority of the others of that time began to flounder. Didio took over DC, and began by hiring a whole bunch of talent with bigger names, who didn't seem to be able to A) stay on a book, B) write a book, or C) submit anything on time. The line started to flounder badly, and quality really suffered, detracting from the good stuff that WAS being published.
It seems (to me, of course) that we've been stuck in that rut ever since. Too much grimness, dead heroes, dead children etc, and not enough fun. Constant reboots or refreshes that, although designed to keep the line fresh, seems to mire it in a lack of grounding that stops it really developing and solidifying into something great again.

Good luck with your reading. I've only listed some of the good stuff, there is much more there. Just don't pay too much attention to the stinkers!

[jb681131]

Also, I skipped Forever Evil: Blight but added to my reading list on your suggestion. Thanks.

No problem man. If you want a more complete list you can also add:

0. You can add all the pre-modern age crisis (they are fun to read - really):
-- 1961 - Flash of Two Worlds - The Flash #123 - creation of the Multiverse
-- 1963 - Crisis on Earth-One! - Justice League of America #21-22
-- 1964 - Crisis on Earth-Three - Justice League of America #29-30
-- 1968 - The Flash--Fact or Fiction? - The Flash #179
-- 1972 - Justice League of America / Justice League of Society - Justice League of America #100-102
-- 1973 - Crisis on Earth-X - Justice League of America #107-108
-- 1981 - Superman vs. Shazam - DC Comics presents #33-34,49 + DC Comics Annual #3
-- 1980 - Crisis between two Earths - Justice League of America #183-185
-- 1982 - Crisis times three - Justice League of America #207-209 / All Star Squadron #14-15

2b. 1987-89 - Justice League International - Justice League International #1-25 + Justice League America #26-30 + Justice League Europe #1-6 + Annuals
A nice follow-up to Legends. Very fun to read. And available as 5 omnibus I think.

16. 1986 - The Watchmen - One-shot <- must have been read before the Rebirth events.
17. 2017 - Batman / The Flash: The Button (optional) - One-shot
18. 2017-19 - Doomsday Clock - Doomsday Clock #1-12
19. 2018-19 - Heroes in Crisis - Heroes in Crisis #1-9 + (Batman #64-65 + The Flash #64-65) <- tie-ins

[lillumultipass]

I would complete it as follows:

1. Crisis on Infinit Earths - start of the Modern Age DC
2. Legends (optional) - creation of the New Justice League and the Suicid Squad
3. Zero Hour: Crisis in Time - come back of the Multiverse
4. Infinite Crisis (excellent event)
5. Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern (fantastic) <- stories before Blackest Knight
6. 52 - even if it happens between Infinit Crisis and Final Crisis, read it after reading both
7. Sevent Solders - a must read before Final Crisis
8. Final Crisis (optional, highly recommend rikdad's blog posts if you read this one: https://rikdad.blogspot.com/2018/01/...ew-part-i.html)
9. Blackest Night/Brightest Day (great events that dovetail with GL run)
10. Flashpoint (very good event that will get you mostly up to speed)
11. Justice League: Trinity War (optional) - somewhat a prequel to Forever Evil
12. Forever Evil
13. Forever Evil: Blight (optional but a great read)
14. Darkseid War (optional) - somewhat a sequel to Forever Evil
15. DC Univers Rebirth

A big thanks to you and BatmanJones for this great list. Strangely enough, I did not get any new notification...
Anyhow...it looks very good. One quick question to both of you : it seems you do not recommend New 52 and skip directly to Rebirth right ?
Also, Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern happens after Infinite crisis right ?
And shouldn't I read his run on Flash before Flashpoint as well ?

thanks !

[lillumultipass]

Hi Lillumultipas,

I'm a long-term reader too, beginning a little before you, by the sounds of it.
It's my opinion that the late '70s to the early '00s have been the best of the modern period, and things began to go downhill from around 2002 onwards, with some great exceptions.
I found the DCU to become far too addicted to constant "next best things", "new status quo" etc, at an accelerating frequency, until we're left in the state we are in now where nobody seems to know what the status quo is, what the histoy is etc. Of course all of this started with Crisis, but it has continued to accelerate ever since.

I myself enjoyed Infinite Crisis at the time, and the 52 / One Year Later initiative after that began well, but soon turned out to be, much like other initiatives that followed it, fairly ill-conceived and far too transitory, quickly being swiped aside for another "next best thing".
The New 52 itself had some great new concepts, however these were cancelled out by drastic and unnecessary changes to histories and back stories, and the sour taste left by deleting and altering fan-favourite characters and histories. One example would be Justice League Dark / Demon Knights / I, Vampire / Frankenstein.

The Knightfall to New Gotham period is an interesting one for Batman (1992-2000), the Superman triangle period is fun (1990?-2000), Wonder Woman in the early '00s is great. Wally West Flash was consistently good for most of volume 2. Suicide Squad from 1987 is great. The JLA / JSA titles from 1996 to 2003 are a real treat, as are the other JSA books of the time: Starman / Stars and STRIPE / Hourman / Dr Midnite. Reading the Batman/Nightwing/Robin/Catwoman/Birds of Prey corner was consistently fun, although sometimes sketchy.
Rucka did a great version of Checkmate in 2006, but the majority of the others of that time began to flounder. Didio took over DC, and began by hiring a whole bunch of talent with bigger names, who didn't seem to be able to A) stay on a book, B) write a book, or C) submit anything on time. The line started to flounder badly, and quality really suffered, detracting from the good stuff that WAS being published.
It seems (to me, of course) that we've been stuck in that rut ever since. Too much grimness, dead heroes, dead children etc, and not enough fun. Constant reboots or refreshes that, although designed to keep the line fresh, seems to mire it in a lack of grounding that stops it really developing and solidifying into something great again.

Good luck with your reading. I've only listed some of the good stuff, there is much more there. Just don't pay too much attention to the stinkers!

thanks !
As to your "It seems (to me, of course) that we've been stuck in that rut ever since. Too much grimness, dead heroes, dead children etc, and not enough fun. Constant reboots or refreshes that, although designed to keep the line fresh, seems to mire it in a lack of grounding that stops it really developing and solidifying into something great again.", I wonder whether you are reading Marvel comics as well and if you could compare the 2 in that respect. Thanks.

[bob.schoonover]

A big thanks to you and BatmanJones for this great list. Strangely enough, I did not get any new notification...
Anyhow...it looks very good. One quick question to both of you : it seems you do not recommend New 52 and skip directly to Rebirth right ?
Also, Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern happens after Infinite crisis right ?
And shouldn't I read his run on Flash before Flashpoint as well ?

thanks !

Geoff Johns' first Flash run (Flash by Geoff Johns v1-5 in tpb) ends at the same time as Infinite Crisis (and they kind of tie together). Green Lantern: Rebirth and Recharge (the GLC companion book) both take place before Rann-Thanagar War and Infinite Crisis. The first few issues of the GL main series also take place before IC, but you won't spoil anything if you just wait and power through those after IC.

The second Johns run on Flash (Flash by Geoff Johns v6 + a presumed v7 to come out later) leads into Flashpoint.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

I would add Chuck Dixon's runs on Nightwing and Robin to the recommended reading, great stuff.

Peter David's Young Justice has no spot in important DCU history, but it's a really fun book.

[jb681131]

A big thanks to you and BatmanJones for this great list. Strangely enough, I did not get any new notification...
Anyhow...it looks very good. One quick question to both of you : it seems you do not recommend New 52 and skip directly to Rebirth right ?
Also, Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern happens after Infinite crisis right ?
And shouldn't I read his run on Flash before Flashpoint as well ?

thanks !

There are lots of bad in the New52 but I do recommand lots of things in the new 52:

For the events you can read:
1. Flashpoint
2. Trinity War
3. Forever Evil
4. Forever Evil: Blight
5. Darkseid War
6. Superman: The Final Days of Superman
7. Titans Hunt
8. DC Universe: Rebirth

For series you can read:
* Flash
* Green Arrow
* Wonder Woman
* Animal Man and Swamp Thing
* Batman & Robin (but you need to have read Grant Morrison's run before)

As for Flashpoint, it can be read on its own.

Geoff Johns run starts before, continues during, and after Infinit Crisis.
But until Blackest Night, you can read it on its own.

[ConnorHawke]

thanks !
As to your "It seems (to me, of course) that we've been stuck in that rut ever since. Too much grimness, dead heroes, dead children etc, and not enough fun. Constant reboots or refreshes that, although designed to keep the line fresh, seems to mire it in a lack of grounding that stops it really developing and solidifying into something great again.", I wonder whether you are reading Marvel comics as well and if you could compare the 2 in that respect. Thanks.

You're welcome.
Unfortunately I don't read Marvel. Only so much time in the day. There is bound to be someone here who can answer that question for you though. Many here read both.

[Menacer]

I feel like entering with an event is not the way to go. The events are more meaningful when you know the characters well and there current story threads... flashpoint may be the only event that is self contained enough that you could start with it and not feel confused...


Personally I suggest you pick a hero and then pick from some of there famous story arcs.

For me I started reading superman, the death reign and return. Since then I've been chasing stories that interest me from superman, flash, green lantern, parallax, wonder woman and batman, justice league...

Mostly superman though.

[BatmanJones]

A big thanks to you and BatmanJones for this great list. Strangely enough, I did not get any new notification...
Anyhow...it looks very good. One quick question to both of you : it seems you do not recommend New 52 and skip directly to Rebirth right ?
Also, Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern happens after Infinite crisis right ?
And shouldn't I read his run on Flash before Flashpoint as well ?

thanks !

My pleasure. Hope it helps and that you enjoy what you read...

I would recommend some of the New 52...

- Geoff Johns' New 52 Justice League starts slow but really gets good as it goes on. Good Shazam backup stories too.
- Johns' New 52 Aquaman is great as is his Green Lantern, which is a followup to his pre-New52 run.
- Snyder's Batman was hit-or-miss for me and I prefer Tom King's Rebirth version immensely but I think you said before you're not a big Batman fan so you could skip this. Same goes for New 52 Batman and Robin, which I loved.
- I liked Forever Evil and Trinity War, which were both during New 52 and were seeded in JL and JL Dark (also good).
- Grayson followed directly from Forever Evil and I loved it.
- Multiversity was a great event that occurred during New 52 but sort of out of continuity IIRC. Recommended.

My memory is poor so I can't answer when Johns' GL run began.

And, yes, I'd recommend Johns' Flash before Flashpoint. I like everything he writes.

[Vordan]

A big thanks to you and BatmanJones for this great list. Strangely enough, I did not get any new notification...
Anyhow...it looks very good. One quick question to both of you : it seems you do not recommend New 52 and skip directly to Rebirth right ?
Also, Geoff Johns' run on Green Lantern happens after Infinite crisis right ?
And shouldn't I read his run on Flash before Flashpoint as well ?

thanks !

Johns GL run begins with GL: Rebirth by Johns and EVS. It’s a different book from GL: Rebirth by Venditti so make sure you don’t get the wrong book.

[lillumultipass]

thanks again guys ! I think I am all set for now then. I will probably start with identity crisis, then maybe some Flash and Infinite Crisis and 52. Then GL it will be (or in-between) and probably some Justice League of America (starting with Tornado...)
Afterwards, we will see...probably a bit or New 52 with Flash leading up to Flashpoint.

[Lightning Rider]

thanks again guys ! I think I am all set for now then. I will probably start with identity crisis, then maybe some Flash and Infinite Crisis and 52. Then GL it will be (or in-between) and probably some Justice League of America (starting with Tornado...)
Afterwards, we will see...probably a bit or New 52 with Flash leading up to Flashpoint.

Sounds like a well rounded plan, good luck and report back

[BatmanJones]

thanks again guys ! I think I am all set for now then. I will probably start with identity crisis, then maybe some Flash and Infinite Crisis and 52. Then GL it will be (or in-between) and probably some Justice League of America (starting with Tornado...)
Afterwards, we will see...probably a bit or New 52 with Flash leading up to Flashpoint.

That's a great plan.

Identity Crisis is controversial but I loved it. Also really loved Meltzer's JLA "starting with Tornado." You chose well.