February 2019 sales

[ChrisG]

My question is, do they take notice of the sales? do they take in consideration declining sales? if yes what action do they take or just resort to reset button.

[Konja7]

If you read the thread you would know the answer to that question.


Unsold books are kept as back issues or are put in clearance bins. You should know this. Stores don’t know what customers will walk in and buy so they keep a wide selection of titles.

Of course, there are unsold comics as back issues.

However, the amount that shops buy will still depend on the popularity they see in these comics.

That means that the numbers in Comichron, Diamond or others still show the popularity that comic shops expect from these comics. Not to mention, that they take into account the sales of the previous issues.

[The Darknight Detective]

I guess which versions of are Big Blue Boy Scouts are a matter of debate.

If it's All-Star or Bronze age, I love him.

Byrne's...yeah, not so much.

I never thought of Supes as a Big Blue Boy Scout during the Bronze Age, FWIW. IMO, the movies are what created that image.

[Uncanny Mutie]

DETECTIVE COMICS is only selling 3,000 something copies a month?!? What the hell?!? It's been better than Batman lately, which I see is in the top 3.

[SebastianS]

DETECTIVE COMICS is only selling 3,000 something copies a month?!? What the hell?!? It's been better than Batman lately, which I see is in the top 3.

You are looking at the wrong issue. Detective Comics 998 sold 60k and 999 sold almost 63K.

[KC]

Of course, there are unsold comics as back issues.

However, the amount that shops buy will still depend on the popularity they see in these comics.

That means that the numbers in Comichron, Diamond or others still show the popularity that comic shops expect from these comics. Not to mention, that they take into account the sales of the previous issues.

True, shops will adjust how much they buy of a specific book and they usually do this will pull lists. But every shop I have been in has carried some of every book for customers who walk in.

[leo619]

Well, they would also probably need to re-work Earth-2 concept again now that it no longer needs to facilitate being about the Justice Society.

I think the more salient point is that Earth-2 eventually crashed and burned rather then it was absolutely awful, but it also wasn't what the JSA is really about either.

But that's why Earth 2 doesn't really need any retooling, outside of some shared names, the history and dynamics behind the two histories is so different that it can stand on it's own.

Wally had actually been in the universe fairly long by the time of Perfect Storm, relatively speaking. Like maybe close to a year?

Wallace's current character arc seems true to how Williamson has been developing him and his role on the Titans teams, so I'm not that bothered. But DC mishandling the Flash family is nothing new.

Disagree, for example nu wally has always been incredibly close to Iris. But after the revelation of him being from flashpoint, not only did Iris do very little to comfort him, their relationship just seemingly vanished. So his current arc is definitely not a true representation, especially in comparison to how Wally use to be.

I don't think the founding status had much to do with it. Even after they got the founding done there really wasn't much more diversity on the team...until, yeah, the Rebirth roster (several years later).

Um, there was only one member of diversity added to the roster when rebirth was started (Simon Baz, Jessica was already on the team.) and of course now the current JLA members have two, just like how new 52 ended up being after the founding members were established.

Cyborg really doesn't have many good founding Justice League stories, come to think of it.

He has a few, thankfully due to Geoff Johns. But that was again a element of execution, as it was obvious after Geoff john, they didn't really want to do much with the character.

I don't think classic fans had much to say about Cyborg's design. I mean, his "classic" look was much more sleeker then his original New 52 design.

Sleeker yes, more modern? Definitely not. It wasn't until Ivan Reis came in that truly gave a modern and sleek cyborg that we deserved, but of course that got reverted because folks want his more antiquated look.

You see the same thing in JLO. Sejic created easily THE most modern and sleek cyborg yet (based more around nanotech than big bulky technological parts), and the minute he leaves, they start reverting it back to his older appearances. It's maddening.

I mean, I think you would have a hard time finding very many positive opinions about the New 52 Teen Titans at any point. Even from people who were genuinely fans of the New 52.

You are like one of the few, if not only, people I have ever seen who hasn't derided it as much as practically everyone else has.

Well that makes sense, since this place is largely an classic fan echo chamber (especially the DC portion.) I'm not saying it's critically acclaimed or anything, but I also seen people who had very little problem with the actual series. More average over anything else.

I think it's more of a character viewpoint then a classic viewpoint but I don't subscribe to the notion that everything is a "classic vs. diversity" issue when it comes to discussing this stuff.

Bad storytelling and character decisions transcends that kind of stuff.

No, it's a classic viewpoint, because most new 52 fans have no problem with the history being wiped and starting anew, that was one of the appeal of the new 52 to begin with. And we're going to keep going back and forth on this until the sun comes up. Because in the end of the day, you refused to see it as a classic vs diversity issue, and I clearly see it that way. And nothing is really going to change that.

The point still stands he wasn't written near as well or utilized near as effectively as Post-Crisis Mr. Terrific, who the criticisms for a solo book for him with that writer would probably be just as salient because of how well he was handled in the Post-Crisis state.

No one is denying he wasn't written well, but it's clearly not the new 52 fault that he written the way he was, as the same issue would have applied if he was the same writer in post crisis Mr. Terrific.

I think the idea that the New 52 opened the door to these ongoings is also false.

(plus, these ongoings weren't good, so...)

You can think that all you want. But when there are tons of articles on the internet talking about how new 52 was the gateway to advancing diversity that was missing pre 52, (which I specifically posted one so it's not like you're unaware anymore) and how there's literally college papers on the internet discussing how new 52 was DC attempt at advancing diversity and judging how well they did, then that just reflects your own opinion of refusing to accept what new 52 was meant to do.

[Frontier]

But that's why Earth 2 doesn't really need any retooling, outside of some shared names, the history and dynamics behind the two histories is so different that it can stand on it's own.

Which would probably have been better implemented if it wasn't the only source for the JSA like it was during the New 52.

Disagree, for example nu wally has always been incredibly close to Iris. But after the revelation of him being from flashpoint, not only did Iris do very little to comfort him, their relationship just seemingly vanished. So his current arc is definitely not a true representation, especially in comparison to how Wally use to be.

I think it's way to early to say their relationship has seemingly vanished. If it helps for Iris to not worry about him...at least she knows he's alive.

Um, there was only one member of diversity added to the roster when rebirth was started (Simon Baz, Jessica was already on the team.) and of course now the current JLA members have two, just like how new 52 ended up being after the founding members were established.

Wasn't the only minority member on the League in the New 52 after Cyborg Jessica? Atomica doesn't count.

He has a few, thankfully due to Geoff Johns. But that was again a element of execution, as it was obvious after Geoff john, they didn't really want to do much with the character.

Origin isn't very well-regarded as far as Justice League stories go. Ditto Justice League: War and the live-action movie it was based on.

Sleeker yes, more modern? Definitely not. It wasn't until Ivan Reis came in that truly gave a modern and sleek cyborg that we deserved, but of course that got reverted because folks want his more antiquated look.

You see the same thing in JLO. Sejic created easily THE most modern and sleek cyborg yet (based more around nanotech than big bulky technological parts), and the minute he leaves, they start reverting it back to his older appearances. It's maddening.

I don't think we disagree on that front.

Well that makes sense, since this place is largely an classic fan echo chamber (especially the DC portion.) I'm not saying it's critically acclaimed or anything, but I also seen people who had very little problem with the actual series. More average over anything else.

Again, there were numerous criticisms for the New 52 Teen Titans beyond it not being "classic," and it really derailed the Titans brand and the characters involved in it even moreso then anything else DC has done with it.

No, it's a classic viewpoint, because most new 52 fans have no problem with the history being wiped and starting anew, that was one of the appeal of the new 52 to begin with. And we're going to keep going back and forth on this until the sun comes up. Because in the end of the day, you refused to see it as a classic vs diversity issue, and I clearly see it that way. And nothing is really going to change that.

And I think that was part of the problem, especially since even the New 52 couldn't even be consistent about it as far as reboots go.

To willingly think completely throwing out a character's history is not important or just something "classic" fans care about feels very...disingenuous to me.

No one is denying he wasn't written well, but it's clearly not the new 52 fault that he written the way he was, as the same issue would have applied if he was the same writer in post crisis Mr. Terrific.

You can think that all you want. But when there are tons of articles on the internet talking about how new 52 was the gateway to advancing diversity that was missing pre 52, (which I specifically posted one so it's not like you're unaware anymore) and how there's literally college papers on the internet discussing how new 52 was DC attempt at advancing diversity and judging how well they did, then that just reflects your own opinion of refusing to accept what new 52 was meant to do.

These articles seem like they're projecting or assuming diversity was a main sticking or driving point of the New 52 rather then a real fact that it was.

(I mean, college papers?).

[iron chimp]

You can think that all you want. But when there are tons of articles on the internet talking about how new 52 was the gateway to advancing diversity that was missing pre 52, (which I specifically posted one so it's not like you're unaware anymore) and how there's literally college papers on the internet discussing how new 52 was DC attempt at advancing diversity and judging how well they did, then that just reflects your own opinion of refusing to accept what new 52 was meant to do.

This wasn't the first time they'd tried all this tho. The infamous dc explosion/implosion, remaking characters in 80s with john byrne, frank miller, alan moore etc, vertigo in 90s and im sure dc heads can think of more. Nu52 was just another attempt to break out the doldrums and get more people reading. And it did.. and then it didnt.

[leo619]

Which would probably have been better implemented if it wasn't the only source for the JSA like it was during the New 52.

Eh not true, again, much of marvel's success with newer characters, Miles Morales, Ironheart, Brawn, etc, happen because they were given the spotlight temporarily before having to share the spotlight with their classic counterparts. So having them share the landscape from the beginning doesn't mean
it would have been better implemented. As long as they eventually shared, that's what I expect. But that's the problem with DC. Unlike Marvel,
they can't allow individuals to share. It's just either one or the other.

I think it's way to early to say their relationship has seemingly vanished. If it helps for Iris to not worry about him...at least she knows he's alive.

Definitely agree to disagree, the fact that she went from super close to almost no contact after he received some of the worst news possible definitely mean this is an issue of bad writing, and the fact the relationship is being distant just to kick it to the curve.

Wasn't the only minority member on the League in the New 52 after Cyborg Jessica? Atomica doesn't count.

Yes, and the only member after Jessica in Rebirth was Simon, who was later removed.

I]Origin[/I] isn't very well-regarded as far as Justice League stories go. Ditto Justice League: War and the live-action movie it was based on.

Clarification, "Origin" wasn't well regarded to classic fans, new 52 fans definitely enjoyed. Though I was specifically referring to forever evil as being
one of the better stories for Cyborg.

Again, there were numerous criticisms for the New 52 Teen Titans beyond it not being "classic," and it really derailed the Titans brand and the characters involved in it even moreso then anything else DC has done with it.

Not really no, Most of the criticisms were about the new 52 teen titans not being like how they remembered, like how the costumes were influence by Tron like that's a bad thing.

And I think that was part of the problem, especially since even the New 52 couldn't even be consistent about it as far as reboots go.

To willingly think completely throwing out a character's history is not important or just something "classic" fans care about feels very...disingenuous to me.

Of course it feels very disingenuous to you, you're a classic fan and history and continuity is important to you. But the problem you, and many classic fans have, is the inability to look into the perspective of those that have different viewpoints. You presume your viewpoint is the golden standard viewpoint, and that everyone has to hold to the same standard as you. Breaking that viewpoint means something must be insincere, which is anything but the truth. That's what I've have been trying to explain this entire time. That there are different viewpoints out there that have different values and ideas that classic fans share, and the fact that the new 52 started off with a huge bang in terms of sales clearly indicated that interest. The writing is there, the new 52 reflected starting over and starting new, and TONS of people were on board with it.

If you don't like starting over, that's fine. But as I have been saying numerous times, it's not the restarting that was the problem, it was the execution of restarting that was the problem.

These articles seem like they're projecting or assuming diversity was a main sticking or driving point of the New 52 rather then a real fact that it was.

(I mean, college papers?).

You're not even viewing the articles. If you did, you would see that they specifically link to articles specifically coming from DC stating a portion about the new 52 was about diversity. Which again, makes sense, because it contrasts with your believe that diversity was "perfectly fine." before the new 52 came in. Talk to folks who actually fully care about diversity,however, and they will say the late 2000's until new 52 was indeed horrible.

[leo619]

This wasn't the first time they'd tried all this tho. The infamous dc explosion/implosion, remaking characters in 80s with john byrne, frank miller, alan moore etc, vertigo in 90s and im sure dc heads can think of more. Nu52 was just another attempt to break out the doldrums and get more people reading. And it did.. and then it didnt.

Eh, not to the degree that new 52 did. Think about it this way, including rebirth, think of one reboot that had as many minority solo books as new 52. There hasn't been to my recollection. new 52 and dcyou was easily DC's biggest push for diversity in probably their entire history, minority solo wise.

[iron chimp]

Eh, not to the degree that new 52 did. Think about it this way, including rebirth, think of one reboot that had as many minority solo books as new 52. There hasn't been to my recollection. new 52 and dcyou was easily DC's biggest push for diversity in probably their entire history, minority solo wise.

Totally agree. However a lot of the characters themselves came out out of pre nu52. Nu52 was good jumping on point for me - heres 52 new books - knock yourself out. However it was also a good jumping off point for many others. Likewise when nu52 ground to a halt it was a good jumping off point for me and good place back in for others. Most of nu52 books i liked were cancelled pretty quickly and when rebirth came about nothing at all interested me for a good 2 years. Theres just not enough people like me to keep the kind of stuff i like going at dc and thats just the way it i.

[leo619]

Totally agree. However a lot of the characters themselves came out out of pre nu52. Nu52 was good jumping on point for me - heres 52 new books - knock yourself out. However it was also a good jumping off point for many others. Likewise when nu52 ground to a halt it was a good jumping off point for me and good place back in for others. Most of nu52 books i liked were cancelled pretty quickly and when rebirth came about nothing at all interested me for a good 2 years. Theres just not enough people like me to keep the kind of stuff i like going at dc and thats just the way it i.

Mostly agree with everything you said. Where I disagree with is that it's not just new 52 fans that weren't enough keep to books we like going, there's just not enough people in general. If it was just that there wasn't enough new 52 fans, rebirth wouldn't be in the situation where it is (which currently is in a worse shape the new 52 was in the same timing). The problem is that DC, for the life of them, cannot find a way to merge the two demographics together. If they could, perhaps they could escape this madness lol. At the same time, I can definitely see it being very difficult for trying to gather multiple demographics with the new 52 fans viewpoint and the classic fan viewpoint is so different with different values.

It also doesn't help that the execution of either reboot was sub par lol. Which again, I've have said has always been the biggest problem, not new 52 or rebirth concept.

[Konja7]

Of course it feels very disingenuous to you, you're a classic fan and history and continuity is important to you. But the problem you, and many classic fans have, is the inability to look into the perspective of those that have different viewpoints. You presume your viewpoint is the golden standard viewpoint, and that everyone has to hold to the same standard as you. Breaking that viewpoint means something must be insincere, which is anything but the truth. That's what I've have been trying to explain this entire time. That there are different viewpoints out there that have different values and ideas that classic fans share, and the fact that the new 52 started off with a huge bang in terms of sales clearly indicated that interest. The writing is there, the new 52 reflected starting over and starting new, and TONS of people were on board with it.

If you don't like starting over, that's fine. But as I have been saying numerous times, it's not the restarting that was the problem, it was the execution of restarting that was the problem.

The thing is people try to protect the things they like. This isn't just "classic" fans (that's why there are many people who complaint about Rebirth and the erase of New52 Superman too). At most, their voices are louder because they are the majority


The thing is you can't mantain all the story and continuity (which "classic" fans want), but being easily accesible to new readers.

New52 tried to appeal many demographics, but it failed. It erased a good portion of the old continuity, which make classic fans angry. However, it still used part of the old continuity and stories, so it was still difficult that new readers can enter.

[DevilBat66]

I guess I see why the cancelled Green Arrow.