February 2019 sales

[iron chimp]

Mostly agree with everything you said. Where I disagree with is that it's not just new 52 fans that weren't enough keep to books we like going, there's just not enough people in general. If it was just that there wasn't enough new 52 fans, rebirth wouldn't be in the situation where it is (which currently is in a worse shape the new 52 was in the same timing). The problem is that DC, for the life of them, cannot find a way to merge the two demographics together. If they could, perhaps they could escape this madness lol. At the same time, I can definitely see it being very difficult for trying to gather multiple demographics with the new 52 fans viewpoint and the classic fan viewpoint is so different with different values.

It also doesn't help that the execution of either reboot was sub par lol. Which again, I've have said has always been the biggest problem, not new 52 or rebirth concept.

Yes thats crux of it - just not enough people in general. I speak to enough people who go to see the films - they know all the ins and outs of characters etc - but whenever i ask if they read the comics they look at me like im crazy. Somewhere along the line a whole generation of readers was lost. X-men under 50k still blows my mind - that was a million seller at one point...

[ChrisG]

Gonna ask again, Do they take notice of the number of sales during the run of a comics? If yes what actions do they take when sales drop? Thanks

[Konja7]

Gonna ask again, Do they take notice of the number of sales during the run of a comics? If yes what actions do they take when sales drop? Thanks

Do you mean DC?

Yeah. They surely take notice of the number of sales (they should also have digital sale numbers).

When the title that drop sales of the comic is an important name, they usually try to save the comic in some way (change writer, change artist or other thing).

Of course, if the sales are pretty lower, they will likely cancel the comic.

[ChrisG]

Do you mean DC?

Yeah. They surely take notice of the number of sales (they should also have digital sale numbers).

When the title that drop sales of the comic is an important name, they usually try to save the comic in some way (change writer, change artist or other thing).

Of course, if the sales are pretty lower, they will likely cancel the comic.

when you say pretty lower under 10k?
Marvel doesn't do like DC?

[Vampire Savior]

Rebirth, New 52... it doesn't matter. They are generally the same fans buying the same products, even if they don't like them. DC's problem is that there is very little demand for its products. Even the sales numbers we see from Comichron are inflated due to double shipping (which is when the companies send more comics than the shops actually order), variant cover scams that force shops to buy a bunch of useless copies, and comics that simply don't sell. If Batman is selling 100,000, then probably only 50,000 to 70,000 of those books were actually bought by readers. Think about what that means for a book that sells 30,000 copies to comic shops. Probably only 15,000 were actually bought by readers. A random number 1 comic that is way over ordered by shops, and that has a bunch of variants, that might sell 100,000 copies probably only goes to like 30,000 actual readers.

It's an extremely unhealthy industry when you actually take a real critical look at it.

[Konja7]

when you say pretty lower under 10k?
Marvel doesn't do like DC?

Usually, under 20K seems to be a big danger of cancellation for Superhero comics in DC. Although they may try to save a comic with an important name.

I guess Marvel is similar, but I have not followed much of its sales, so I can't be sure.

[ChrisG]

Usually, under 20K seems to be a big danger cancellation for Superhero comics in DC. Although they may try to save a comic with an important name.

I guess Marvel is similar, but I have not followed much of its sales, so I can't be sure.

Then I fear Aquaman maybe at risk

[Vampire Savior]

Usually, under 20K seems to be a big danger of cancellation for Superhero comics in DC. Although they may try to save a comic with an important name.

I guess Marvel is similar, but I have not followed much of its sales, so I can't be sure.

Depending on the character, what Marvel will do is let the title keep sinking until it's at about 10,000, and then they will just relaunch the book... maybe with a different creative team. This happens for characters like Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel. Essentially characters that they want to work really bad, or that they see value in bringing to other sectors of entertainment, despite them being shown to fail over and again with comics readers.

[Konja7]

Then I fear Aquaman maybe at risk

If Aquaman can be stable in 26K, it should be fine.

Also, it's possible a general relaunch of #1 will happen in the future. It's likely Aquaman will be included in this, since it's an important name.

[ChrisG]

If Aquaman can be stable in 26K, it should be fine.

Also, it's pretty possible a relaunch #1 will happen in the future. It's likely Aquaman will be included in this, since it's an important name.

I fear they might do something stupid, that will make fans drop it myself included. When will relaunch possibly happen?

[Konja7]

I fear they might do something stupid, that will make fans drop it myself included. When will relaunch possibly happen?

So far, a relaunch is just a possibility that I see since sales of DC comics are not so good in general. However, I can not guarantee this.

[ChrisG]

So far, a relaunch is just a possibility that I see since sales of DC comics are not so good in general. However, I can not guarantee this.

Thks, so I must hope they don't screw it up or it gets cancelled.

[Frontier]

Eh not true, again, much of marvel's success with newer characters, Miles Morales, Ironheart, Brawn, etc, happen because they were given the spotlight temporarily before having to share the spotlight with their classic counterparts. So having them share the landscape from the beginning doesn't mean
it would have been better implemented. As long as they eventually shared, that's what I expect. But that's the problem with DC. Unlike Marvel,
they can't allow individuals to share. It's just either one or the other.

If Cho was really a big success he wouldn't be going by "Brawn." He's not sharing the spotlight compared to The Hulk.

But I don't think that's really comparable to Earth-2. The concept, execution, and role are extremely different from legacy heroes in a main continuity. Earth-2 was meant to be the only JSA around.

Definitely agree to disagree, the fact that she went from super close to almost no contact after he received some of the worst news possible definitely mean this is an issue of bad writing, and the fact the relationship is being distant just to kick it to the curve.

I don't think we've seen enough evidence to conclude they're not close, especially with everything Iris is already dealing on-top of that. All things considered Wallace seems to be taking the Flashpoint thing well aside from being mad at Barry for the umpteenth time.

Yes, and the only member after Jessica in Rebirth was Simon, who was later removed.

Jessica and Simon were on the Rebirth team together.

Clarification, "Origin" wasn't well regarded to classic fans, new 52 fans definitely enjoyed. Though I was specifically referring to forever evil as being
one of the better stories for Cyborg.

I dunno. It seems pretty widely-regarded as Johns' weakest arc on the book, whether the reviewer be classic or New 52. And the animated movie wasn't received much better.

Forever Evil isn't a founding Justice League story.

Not really no, Most of the criticisms were about the new 52 teen titans not being like how they remembered, like how the costumes were influence by Tron like that's a bad thing.

People complained about the over-busy and weird designs but they also complained about the shallow and inconsistent characterizations, meandering plots, lack of direction, and how bad "The Culling" was.

It was not a hallmark of Teen Superhero comics, or a very well-regarded era for the Titans.

Of course it feels very disingenuous to you, you're a classic fan and history and continuity is important to you. But the problem you, and many classic fans have, is the inability to look into the perspective of those that have different viewpoints. You presume your viewpoint is the golden standard viewpoint, and that everyone has to hold to the same standard as you. Breaking that viewpoint means something must be insincere, which is anything but the truth. That's what I've have been trying to explain this entire time. That there are different viewpoints out there that have different values and ideas that classic fans share, and the fact that the new 52 started off with a huge bang in terms of sales clearly indicated that interest. The writing is there, the new 52 reflected starting over and starting new, and TONS of people were on board with it.

I care about characters. That means I care about their history, who they are, and what they represent. I don't think that makes me a "classic" fan since I would like to think New 52 fans care about the same thing, in their own way. Otherwise why even care about these characters?

The New 52 started off with a huge bang because it was a much publicized reboot, and much like all of Marvel's relaunches it petered out after the shine fell off.

If you don't like starting over, that's fine. But as I have been saying numerous times, it's not the restarting that was the problem, it was the execution of restarting that was the problem.

I think it was a case of both.

Especially since they didn't even really do a restart on everything.

You're not even viewing the articles. If you did, you would see that they specifically link to articles specifically coming from DC stating a portion about the new 52 was about diversity. Which again, makes sense, because it contrasts with your believe that diversity was "perfectly fine." before the new 52 came in. Talk to folks who actually fully care about diversity,however, and they will say the late 2000's until new 52 was indeed horrible.

Ironically enough that same era had the same people running it. But did that era have the same issue with minorities and female characters that the New 52 did?

[Konja7]

Rebirth, New 52... it doesn't matter. They are generally the same fans buying the same products, even if they don't like them. DC's problem is that there is very little demand for its products. Even the sales numbers we see from Comichron are inflated due to double shipping (which is when the companies send more comics than the shops actually order), variant cover scams that force shops to buy a bunch of useless copies, and comics that simply don't sell. If Batman is selling 100,000, then probably only 50,000 to 70,000 of those books were actually bought by readers. Think about what that means for a book that sells 30,000 copies to comic shops. Probably only 15,000 were actually bought by readers. A random number 1 comic that is way over ordered by shops, and that has a bunch of variants, that might sell 100,000 copies probably only goes to like 30,000 actual readers.

It's an extremely unhealthy industry when you actually take a real critical look at it.

Although it's true that shops can't sell all the copies they bought.

Shops still buy comics based in their expectatives of sales. They probably know people buy more comics with variants (and foil covers), so they buy more of these.

If the sales aren't so good, shops will likely buy much less the next month.


For example: I suspect the sales of Young Justice #1 were probably not so good for shops.

Young Justice #1 73,952 (January)

Young Justice #2 37,081 (February)

[iron chimp]

Although it's true that shops can't sell all the copies they bought.

Shops still buy comics based in their expectatives of sales. They probably know people buy more comics variants (and foil covers), so they buy more of these.

If the sales aren't so good, shops will likely buy much less the next month.


For example: I suspect the sales of Young Justice #1 were probably not so good for shops.

Young Justice #1 73,952 (January)

Young Justice #2 37,081 (February)

Dc dont do it to their credit but the number of marvel comics that go from the printer to diamond to shop straight to landfill to get hold of a $100, $500, $1000 variant they can flip is just ridiculous.