February 2019 sales

[HandofPrometheus]

Far from Rebirth? LOL, far more than the majority of changes from the new 52 has been reversed and fits more along their classic lining then it's new 52 counterpart. Just because it's not a direct one to one doesn't mean this isn't any less a reverse plan of action.

But like I said, they can keep trying to push this dying ship into the ground all they want. Until they can reflect the current times, they will be screwed.

Eh that's arguable especially since a lot of the New 52 concepts still seem more visible than Pre-52.

[Robanker]

Far from Rebirth? LOL, far more than the majority of changes from the new 52 has been reversed and fits more along their classic lining then it's new 52 counterpart. Just because it's not a direct one to one doesn't mean this isn't any less a reverse plan of action.

But like I said, they can keep trying to push this dying ship into the ground all they want. Until they can reflect the current times, they will be screwed.

The tonal shift and focus on characters in peril (Arthur and Dick having amnesia, splitting up established character relationships like GA/BC and Aquaman/Mera, a focus on darker storytelling with Heroes in Crisis/Year of the Villain). DC's been trending closer to New 52 than Rebirth.

I get that you hate Rebirth, but quite frankly we're in a peculiar spot right now where it's not quite New 52, not quite Rebirth. It's more of the stuff people complain was ruined with the New 52 but with Rebirth's status quo.

It's essentially them trying what bombed a few years ago that required Rebirth to restore good will, but post Rebirth; they seemingly learned little.

[skyvolt2000]

The tonal shift and focus on characters in peril (Arthur and Dick having amnesia, splitting up established character relationships like GA/BC and Aquaman/Mera, a focus on darker storytelling with Heroes in Crisis/Year of the Villain). DC's been trending closer to New 52 than Rebirth.

I get that you hate Rebirth, but quite frankly we're in a peculiar spot right now where it's not quite New 52, not quite Rebirth. It's more of the stuff people complain was ruined with the New 52 but with Rebirth's status quo.

It's essentially them trying what bombed a few years ago that required Rebirth to restore good will, but post Rebirth; they seemingly learned little.

It's hard to learn anything if you keep tossing out nonstop Batman books.

He just plugs the holes-he's not the 100% solution.

I looked on Amazon Kindle a few weeks ago-if it was not for the butchering of Wally West & Titans (AKA Heroes in Crisis), Doomsday Clock & Batman-DC would have been left out of the top 100 for Kindle. Meanwhile every Marvel female not named X-23 was there and every single one of them BEAT Batman. Shuri beat him twice with 2 issues in the top 50.

You can build up Batman and his entitlement friends all you like but you are losing the war.

Those ticked off Vixen, Jason Rusch, Tim Drake, JSA, Legion, John Stewart, Wally West (BOTH versions) and others are the ones who are walking away.
How hard is it to do a Vixen mini? Or Tim Drake mini?
How hard is it to do a 12 part JSA reunion that does not need some long delayed event.
Couldn't Silencer last till issue 25?

Can we get DC Showcase back? Something to show new talent and give stories to those folks long for? Even if it's for only 12 issues?
I don't need 10 Batman (not his supporting cast mind you) books. I see enough of them collecting dust at the library or in bins.

Give 4 high quality Batman lead books. Lets start building up everybody else. Cassandra Cain had a book for 6 years for a REASON. So did Bart, Tim & Conner. Dc needs to get back to that and less "look at me I want attention by ruining Titan franchisee AGAIN"

[leo619]

Eh that's arguable especially since a lot of the New 52 concepts still seem more visible than Pre-52.

I definitely to disagree. Let's just bring up the changes that's no where to be found. Milestone Universe? Gone. Earth 2? Gone. New Superman? Gone.
New 52 Superman? Gone. Wonder Woman's New 52 past? Gone. Nu Wally? Becomes "Wallace" and kicked off to teen titans with little screen time and almost completely MIA from the flash comic.
Cyborg? Quickly losing his founding father status so the Justice League original founders can return to the all white league and a alien. Barbara? Batgirl again.

I can go on and on and on. Rebirth has shifted the status quo mostly back to pre-52 stages, and the remaining concepts our being pushed away/ending at different rates.
Yet that has done nothing to fixed sales, and only partially appease the classic fanbase because it's not exactly like how pre-52 use to be currently. The writing on the wall
clearly shows the classic fans are not going to save this industry, and instead of trying to bring bold concepts both outside and inside comics, they rather return to the 1960's
until they go out of business. So I have no sympathy for them when they do.

[TheCape]

Milestone? that went away since the first 8 moths of the reboot, Static Shock was the only tittle that represented it and outside helping Lodbell TT for 2 issues (when his series still wasn't cancelled) he hasn't been since then, unless that i had been missing something in the last year. Earth 2 went away because it wasn't selling very well, that's one of the reasons of why actually having the JSA in another earth instead of the main one is a bad idea, most fans (old or new) don't care about AU's, just ask Mayday Parker fans. The only permanent change is within Superman and Wonder Woman, who had gone back to a more pre-new 52 setting.

[ChrisG]

I still don't really get the appeal for the Batman Who Laughs beyond "Scott Snyder wrote it."

Is Heroes in Crisis selling better? I'm not up on what's good or bad for event sales.

Flash and Batman still going strong (crossovers probably helped).

All the usual suspects seem to be doing their usual numbers.

I wonder if DeConnick is going to pickup sales for Aquaman. It doesn't seem like it got a movie boost (but those hardly ever happen).

Justice League Dark doing solid but Justice League Odyssey seems to be lagging...

I expect all the 20K and below books are going to start winding down, although DC is sometimes better about keeping those going depending on the character.

Its not DC that is good at keeping them going, but diehard fans that keep them afloat. The gap with marvel widens and becoming embarrassing, can't understand why they persist in this path.

[leo619]

Milestone? that went away since the first 8 moths of the reboot, Static Shock was the only tittle that represented it and outside helping Lodbell TT for 2 issues (when his series still wasn't cancelled) he hasn't been since then, unless that i had been missing something in the last year. Earth 2 went away because it wasn't selling very well, that's one of the reasons of why actually having the JSA in another earth instead of the main one is a bad idea, most fans (old or new) don't care about AU's, just ask Mayday Parker fans. The only permanent change has been is really Superman and Wonder Woman, who has gone back to a more pre-new 52 setting.

Static Shock was the only title at that time yes, but it was still indicating that he and the milestone universe was part of the new 52 universe, not it's own separate universe like it has currently. This would have allowed Static to appear in either teen titans or young justice.

Earth 2 actually had great sales for a while. From Robinson introduction run all the way through Taylor run which included Val Zod, Aquawoman and more. It wasn't until world's end came in, with that specific writer, where sales started to go down hill.
Yet classic fans try to blame it on the series as a whole where it only takes a little research to see that one specific writer crashed the series.

And people don't care about AU's? Miles Morales says hi, who easily the most popular new hero in the last decade.

Now don't get me wrong, I will be the first to say that the new 52 was filled with bad execution. Earth 2, Statis Shock, The later Cyborg books, and more are huge testaments of that. Yet instead of blaming the execution like folks should, people blame the concepts as it that was causing the sale problems when it's clearly not.

Rebirth is going through the same execution issue. Justice League Odyssey started with so much hype, and featured arguably one of the most popular artists out there. What happens? They drop both the artist and the writer in literally 6 issues, (artist in like 2), because of back end decisions that caused sejic to have to draw the book all over again.

Outsiders? They literally had a detective tec arc that was supposed to transition into a team series. What happened? The book got delayed by freaking 8 months because they had to account for an event.

These stories, these issues, is what help causes DC to flounder. The same execution mistakes we see in new 52, from static shock editor, artist and writer fighting after the first 3-4 months, we see now in Justice League Odyssey with the artist and editorial staff having conflict. But no one wants to talk about that. Because the classic fans are still "largely" getting what they want, even though it's not a full transition just yet.

In the end, reverting things back to pre-52 stages, as we have seen currently with sales, has done nothing to improve dc sale capabilities. This should be the light bulb indicating maybe dedicating your entire comic book approach to a dying demographic is a bad thing, but hey, their loss in business is going to be mine gain eventually when my business takes off lol.

[TheCape]

Static Shock was the only title at that time yes, but it was still indicating that he and the milestone universe was part of the new 52 universe, not it's own separate universe like it has currently. This would have allowed Static to appear in either teen titans or young justice.

Earth 2 actually had great sales for a while. From Robinson introduction run all the way through Taylor run which included Val Zod, Aquawoman and more. It wasn't until world's end came in, with that specific writer, where sales started to go down hill.
Yet classic fans try to blame it on the series as a whole where it only takes a little research to see that one specific writer crashed the series.

And people don't care about AU's? Miles Morales says hi, who easily the most popular new hero in the last decade.

Now don't get me wrong, I will be the first to say that the new 52 was filled with bad execution. Earth 2, Statis Shock, The later Cyborg books, and more are huge testaments of that. Yet instead of blaming the execution like folks should, people blame the concepts as it that was causing the sale problems when it's clearly not.

Rebirth is going through the same execution issue. Justice League Odyssey started with so much hype, and featured arguably one of the most popular artists out there. What happens? They drop both the artist and the writer in literally 6 issues, (artist in like 2), because of back end decisions that caused sejic to have to draw the book all over again.

Outsiders? They literally had a detective tec arc that was supposed to transition into a team series. What happened? The book got delayed by freaking 8 months because they had to account for an event.

These stories, these issues, is what help causes DC to flounder. The same execution mistakes we see in new 52, from static shock editor, artist and writer fighting after the first 3-4 months, we see now in Justice League Odyssey with the artist and editorial staff having conflict. But no one wants to talk about that. Because the classic fans are still "largely" getting what they want, even though it's not a full transition just yet.

In the end, reverting things back to pre-52 stages, as we have seen currently with sales, has done nothing to improve dc sale capabilities. This should be the light bulb indicating maybe dedicating your entire comic book approach to a dying demographic is a bad thing, but hey, their loss in business is going to be mine gain eventually when my business takes off lol.

Ultimate Spider-Man was one of the few exceptions, more often than not AU's aren't very successful, that's why Miles is basically the only thing that survived from that universe and his character still some conceptual problems that they haven't fixed (which also started pretty popular but was losing ground as thing went on). It wasn't very different from Earth 2, it just happened sooner (and i say this as someone that actually enjoy the first 2 arcs of Robinson run).

As you say, what is killing sales is not Rebirth or going back to the Pre-52 setting, is the execution of things, there is a lot of current DC that isn't exactly great, with only Batman and Flash being somewhat consistent sellers while everyone else is struggling. Besides comics don't sell what they used too for years, they usually rely on gimmicks and events to raise profile and had on increase of sale and few moths after, sales plum down again, New 52 was that, DC You was that and Rebirth was that too, in a few months we would see the next one and the same cycle would repeat and no one knows how to break it.

[Robanker]

Static Shock was the only title at that time yes, but it was still indicating that he and the milestone universe was part of the new 52 universe, not it's own separate universe like it has currently. This would have allowed Static to appear in either teen titans or young justice.

Earth 2 actually had great sales for a while. From Robinson introduction run all the way through Taylor run which included Val Zod, Aquawoman and more. It wasn't until world's end came in, with that specific writer, where sales started to go down hill.
Yet classic fans try to blame it on the series as a whole where it only takes a little research to see that one specific writer crashed the series.

And people don't care about AU's? Miles Morales says hi, who easily the most popular new hero in the last decade.

Now don't get me wrong, I will be the first to say that the new 52 was filled with bad execution. Earth 2, Statis Shock, The later Cyborg books, and more are huge testaments of that. Yet instead of blaming the execution like folks should, people blame the concepts as it that was causing the sale problems when it's clearly not.

Rebirth is going through the same execution issue. Justice League Odyssey started with so much hype, and featured arguably one of the most popular artists out there. What happens? They drop both the artist and the writer in literally 6 issues, (artist in like 2), because of back end decisions that caused sejic to have to draw the book all over again.

Outsiders? They literally had a detective tec arc that was supposed to transition into a team series. What happened? The book got delayed by freaking 8 months because they had to account for an event.

These stories, these issues, is what help causes DC to flounder. The same execution mistakes we see in new 52, from static shock editor, artist and writer fighting after the first 3-4 months, we see now in Justice League Odyssey with the artist and editorial staff having conflict. But no one wants to talk about that. Because the classic fans are still "largely" getting what they want, even though it's not a full transition just yet.

In the end, reverting things back to pre-52 stages, as we have seen currently with sales, has done nothing to improve dc sale capabilities. This should be the light bulb indicating maybe dedicating your entire comic book approach to a dying demographic is a bad thing, but hey, their loss in business is going to be mine gain eventually when my business takes off lol.

I'd argue that while he didn't originate in this decade, it's most popular character is Deadpool, not Miles. He stuck a huge chord with the general market and had two massive movies and a video game. Pretty great for someone who isn't an established franchise like Batman or Spider-Man.

Yes, execution is lacking, but pushing away your loyal customers to court new ones with business practice that promises new readers they'll be cast aside later does little to inspire confidence in a new audience.

The New 52 mined concepts from Pre-FP from the beginning, too. It was reactionary. A lot of the problems we have now were going to set in with a new readership that aren't tried and tested suckers the way we are.

Alienating your customer isn't the right sacrifice for reaching a new market. DC isn't alone right now. The entire industry is struggling to deal with this issue.

[leo619]

Ultimate Spider-Man was one of the few exceptions, more often than not AU's aren't very successful, that's why Miles is basically the only thing that survived from that universe and his character still some conceptual problems that they haven't fixed (which also started pretty popular but was losing ground as thing went on). It wasn't very different from Earth 2, it just happened sooner (and i say this as someone that actually enjoy the first 2 arcs of Robinson run).

The Ultimate Universe itself, not just Miles Morales was popular. So again, I disagree. What killed the Ultimate Universe? Ultimatum where heroes got wiped out all over the place. What killed Earth 2? World's End. Both AU featured the exact same problem and yet kept the same writers that eventually started the destruction of said AU. Yet even with that, Miles Morales persevered. Also Miles Morales was not losing ground, his sales always stayed at the same level as Peter Parker had as Ultimate Spider Man, and continues to sell well today. So not sure where you're getting that from.

As you say, what is killing sales is not Rebirth or going back to the Pre-52 setting, is the execution of things, there is a lot of current DC that isn't exactly great, with only Batman and Flash being somewhat consistent sellers while everyone else is struggling. Besides comics don't sell what they used too for years, they usually rely on gimmicks and events to raise profile and had on increase of sale and few moths after, sales plum down again, New 52 was that, DC You was that and Rebirth was that too, in a few months we would see the next one and the same cycle would repeat and no one knows how to break it.

Exactly, but that's why it's funny when I constantly see articles and classic fans going around saying how rebirth helped saved the DC universe. It didn't, because the problem wasn't reverting to the status quo, the problem with DC from new 52 is the same problem with DC in rebirth, and that's execution.

They use gimmicks and events to give spikes in sales instead of focusing on the foundational flaws that DC has and trying aggressively to reach new markets.
It reminds me of old companies who can't handle with the change of times and are eventually left in the dust. And DC will only have their own to blame.

[Vordan]

I still don't really get the appeal for the Batman Who Laughs beyond "Scott Snyder wrote it."

Is Heroes in Crisis selling better? I'm not up on what's good or bad for event sales.

Flash and Batman still going strong (crossovers probably helped).

All the usual suspects seem to be doing their usual numbers.

I wonder if DeConnick is going to pickup sales for Aquaman. It doesn't seem like it got a movie boost (but those hardly ever happen).

Justice League Dark doing solid but Justice League Odyssey seems to be lagging...

I expect all the 20K and below books are going to start winding down, although DC is sometimes better about keeping those going depending on the character.

HiC is selling terribly for an event, being outsold by the monthly Batman comic is not good. King and DC have a massive flop on their hands here. Not sure if it’s Secret Empire-tier but it’s down there.

[Kurisu]

I feel such vindication knowing King is the only person at DC who pushes units lmao. Good for him.

Anyway, death to the remnants of Rebirth! Course correct this ship, Didio!

[leo619]

I'd argue that while he didn't originate in this decade, it's most popular character is Deadpool, not Miles. He stuck a huge chord with the general market and had two massive movies and a video game. Pretty great for someone who isn't an established franchise like Batman or Spider-Man.

Yes, execution is lacking, but pushing away your loyal customers to court new ones with business practice that promises new readers they'll be cast aside later does little to inspire confidence in a new audience.

The New 52 mined concepts from Pre-FP from the beginning, too. It was reactionary. A lot of the problems we have now were going to set in with a new readership that aren't tried and tested suckers the way we are.

Alienating your customer isn't the right sacrifice for reaching a new market. DC isn't alone right now. The entire industry is struggling to deal with this issue.

Um No, Deadpool came out in 1991. A character founded 30 years ago is no longer a new character, but it's that motive that shows how behind the times comics is. Manga gets brand new popular characters like every 5 to 10 years. Now we have my hero academia. Yet people in comics are reverting to a 30 year old character to try and discredit miles morales lol. That's not a knock against dead pool. The fact that he's as successful as he is, is still very good. But he has had plenty of time to reach the popularity that he has. Miles Morales literally came out 5 years ago, and has become only the 3 black superhero to have a solo movie made after him. (Blade and Black Panther preceding him of course.) His movie sweep the awards which was the first time Sony has won award. When Disney use to dominate the animated award scene. Miles has reached an area of success where DC could only wish could happen for it's new characters, but DC doesn't put anywhere near the amount of effort that Marvel does and it's showed in their end product.

And the loyal customers were/is hijacking the industry to begin with. One of the big reasons the new 52 was introduced was because before that, over 88% of the comic book readership were white males over the age of 28 that majority wouldn't support diverse books at that time.

So the new 52 was introduced, designed to bring in the diverse cliental desperately needed to keep the industry alive, and what did they do? Well I've already talked about how flawed their execution was.

In the end, the new 52 wasn't entirely alienating the customer, nor does DC need to entirely alienate the classic readership. The problem is the many classic readers wants ALL of the major dc properties to cater to the classic demographic, and it's that hijack ideology as to what's killing this industry. This industry is not allowed to flourish and grow like it needs to because it needs to keep the comic book shops and classic fandom happy, so all three can hold their hands together while this market crashes and burn.

[Robanker]

Um No, Deadpool came out in 1991. A character founded 30 years ago is no longer a new character, but it's that motive that shows how behind the times comics is. Manga gets brand new popular characters like every 5 to 10 years. Now we have my hero academia. Yet people in comics are reverting to a 30 year old character to try and discredit miles morales lol. That's not a knock against dead pool. The fact that he's as successful as he is, is still very good. But he has had plenty of time to reach the popularity that he has. Miles Morales literally came out 5 years ago, and has become only the 3 black superhero to have a solo movie made after him. (Blade and Black Panther preceding him of course.) His movie sweep the awards which was the first time Sony has won award. When Disney use to dominate the animated award scene. Miles has reached an area of success where DC could only wish could happen for it's new characters, but DC doesn't put anywhere near the amount of effort that Marvel does and it's showed in their end product.

And the loyal customers were/is hijacking the industry to begin with. One of the big reasons the new 52 was introduced was because before that, over 88% of the comic book readership were white males over the age of 28 that majority wouldn't support diverse books at that time.

So the new 52 was introduced, designed to bring in the diverse cliental desperately needed to keep the industry alive, and what did they do? Well I've already talked about how flawed their execution was.

In the end, the new 52 wasn't entirely alienating the customer, nor does DC need to entirely alienate the classic readership. The problem is the many classic readers wants ALL of the major dc properties to cater to the classic demographic, and it's that hijack ideology as to what's killing this industry. This industry is not allowed to flourish and grow like it needs to because it needs to keep the comic book shops and classic fandom happy, so all three can hold their hands together while this market crashes and burn.

I specifically said he didn't debut in this decade, but this is the decade in which he skyrocketed and he's a good match for it. A sarcastic meme-generator with disregard for tradition? That's my generation and the one behind me (I'm 29) to a T and the box office agrees. I mean that with equal parts praise and vitriol, but it stands. Miles has just begun to bleed into cross-media saturation. He's popular, but I still think Deadpool has him licked in terms of the general audience who are only recently getting to know the guy.

Miles also didn't literally come out five years ago, he was created in 2011. Moreover, you forgot Steel for black superheroes having a film made after them. Hancock and Spawn as well if we're being a touch more broad and going outside the Big Two. I'm not sure I'd call Into the Spider-Verse a solo film either, considering he shared it with 5 other Spider-Folk, one of which being the Peter Parker incarnation. Your facts need some work.

The market is delicate. Does it need work? Absolutely. Digital is the way to go and Diamond is a hurdle that needs to be bounded. Reduced cost for publication and distribution allows for books to survive on smaller sales figures which is where a lot of B-Listers should live. They can see print if overwhelmingly successful or in collected format, but print isn't the way to go if you want to turn a profit on Electric Warriors. It's just not.

I absolutely agree the market needs to change, but frankly, you're posting false facts and pushing so hard in one direction that it does discredit your argument. Nevertheless, I believe it's best we agree to disagree. Have a good one and keep reading, dude. It's a fine hobby and I'm glad we both seem to care about it enough to post on forums regarding its future.

[Timothy Hunter]

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