Not at all, they have completely different stories behind them. That's like saying it's redundant to bring back power girl because we supergirl. The Earth 2 universe spawned into a completely different world than JSA.
Agreed.And, on the positive side, Jon Kent proved a more viable IP element then a lot of the New 52 stuff.
Except for his role in Titans have been anything but equal. You can tell who's the author's favorite character in the book (Djinn, Robin, and Crush). Besides him being in the titans does not mean he needs to be completely removed from the flash book.Isn't that kind of for the best? I mean, if he's in The Flash book it's pretty much just in a sidekick role as Kid Flash. At least in the Titans he's an equal member of the team (and that's not getting into Williamson's issues with writing him).
Almost all of Wallace supporting cast is in the flash book, now he has no interaction with barry, no interaction with his aunt, nothing.
I specifically referenced the original founding members, the justice league has regularly have rotating members of minority characters showing inWell, with or without Cyborg the League's not all-white right now since we've got a Latina Hawkgirl and a black GL on the team.
Justice League. But one of the biggest, rightfully criticized decision is that the "founding fathers" which is often considered the most important members of the Justice League have been white. Cyborg introduction was meant to change that.
Agreed.I think the JL movie failing pretty much put the death knell in Cyborg's founding status becoming iconic enough to keep.
No one is doubting that Rebirth didn't cause a sales spike. But people were blaming the crashing sales of new 52 on the concepts on new 52, saying reverting back to a more classical DC will save the day. But I have been saying SINCE THE BEGINNING that the issue wasn't new 52 bold attempt, but their execution and thatRebirth was a good creative and sales spike for DC but for a variety of reasons it wasn't sustainable both conceptually and financially and that translated to sales, just as it did for the New 52.
rebirth classical approach would do nothing to fix that. And here we are, right where we first started.
They have, you only need to look in threads here to see classic fans trashing Earth 2. Still doesn't change the fact that the series itself was a success for 20+ issues until world's end and bennett/Wilson crashed everything to the ground.Wouldn't classic fans have just complained about the fact that it wasn't their JSA?
I'm not saying all of the concepts released by new 52 was fantastic or universally accepted, but the concepts was not the driving factor for sales decrease. If that was the case, Rebirth, which fits much closer to the classic fan concept desires wouldn't be the same situation new 52 was. And yet it is. Which only goes to show the concepts themselvesI think it was a good mix of faulty execution and concepts.
Like, people praised Grayson, which was a pretty sharp change for the Nightwing character, but not many people praised the Amazon "rape camps" or being so unlikeable, all the issues with Lois Lane, Scott Lobdell's take on Starfire, practically everything about the Teen Titans in the New 52, etc.
If something from the New 52 was well-received it generally stuck, like Aquaman's new history and certain characters like Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz, and such.
were not the issue in regards to sales, it was the execution.
Correction, they are not getting everything they want, which has always been one of the biggest problems with classic fans. The fact that the batfamily forum is filled with thread of classicClassic fans are not "largely" getting what they want. I mean, have you seen all the complaints about the current Batfamily and Heroes in Crisis?
fans trying to get rid of almost all the diverse characters in the bat family pretty much illustrate good portion why the comic book market won't make it. Sharing is not allowed.
Correction, Rebirth generated good will towards the classic comic book fan, that's it. But since the comic book media and forums are mostly controlled by classic fans, that's essentially all people wanted to see. The negative feedback about Rebirth by new 52 fans, new readers and diverse readers were pretty much shut out because itI think Rebirth generated a lot of positive goodwill both creatively and character-wise, but DC bungled the execution on that as well.
contrasted with the rosy image of rebirth and the "good ole days" was supposed to represent. So there was definitely negative reactions to rebirth as well, but people refused to listen.
Oh I definitely not saying Marvel doesn't but Marvel tries MUCH harder to reach new markets then DC does, and that's why they have been much more successful in maintaining books for newer characters.I mean, look at Marvel. They do every gimmick in the book to try and get more sales.
We will have to agree to disagree on that, I definitely believe one of the biggest reason for the new 52 was to try and established successful minority solo books seeing as their hands were essentially tied before the new 52.I don't think the New 52 was specifically designed to do that. Obviously there were diverse books but I think the desire for a reboot and a sales spike had more to do with it
Of course not, just look at how many classic fan threads requesting for newer diverse characters to get straight up sent to limbo, removed entirely etc. Now look at how many new 52 fans request for any character to just straight disappear, you almost never see it. Why? Because at least new 52 fans have the decency to not a character that some people may enjoy to disappear just because they themselves may not be interested in that character. New 52 fans have always been about sharing the wealth. Classic fans have mostly been about taking all of the wealth.Isn't that true for the New 52 fans side as well?