February 2019 sales

[KC]

My opinion is we should stop trying to use Comichron as a way of measuring comic sales. It only takes into account sales from North America and does not include digital sales.

[Dred]

Digital sales are a minor portion of Big 2 profits. Their cash flow is utterly reliant on shop preorders. If digital sales were a significant enough market for them they would focus significantly more heavily on that audience, that advertisement, and supporting it because by god would DC and Marvel comics love a life raft from the sinking comic shop ship.

[Vordan]

My opinion is we should stop trying to use Comichron as a way of measuring comic sales. It only takes into account sales from North America and does not include digital sales.

Unfortunately we don’t get actual digital sales, and digital sales still don’t comprise a large enough share of the comic book industries sales iirc. But digital does have an impact, as does trade sales. Ms. Marvel has seen a lot of success in those fields, as have books like Moon Girl which are sold at Scholastic book fairs. It’s why I’m really interested in seeing how the Ink and Zoom books do.

[KC]

Digital sales are a minor portion of Big 2 profits. Their cash flow is utterly reliant on shop preorders. If digital sales were a significant enough market for them they would focus significantly more heavily on that audience, that advertisement, and supporting it because by god would DC and Marvel comics love a life raft from the sinking comic shop ship.

Digital sales and sales from outside of North America have an impact and that is not accurately represented by the Comichron data.

[KC]

Unfortunately we don’t get actual digital sales, and digital sales still don’t comprise a large enough share of the comic book industries sales iirc. But digital does have an impact, as does trade sales. Ms. Marvel has seen a lot of success in those fields, as have books like Moon Girl which are sold at Scholastic book fairs. It’s why I’m really interested in seeing how the Ink and Zoom books do.

Digital sales, sales outside of North America and trades all have an impact. And all of these things are not represented by the Comichron data.

[Dred]

Trades are usually represented, just, you know, when they come out. Every month has a trade sales list. For instance, this month had the Mister Miracle trade top the charts at 8k units (pretty darn good!). That said, historically and currently, trade sales tend to match overall sales trends. It's the rare exceptions like Mister Miracle that stand out.

[KC]

Trades are usually represented, just, you know, when they come out. Every month has a trade sales list. For instance, this month had the Mister Miracle trade top the charts at 8k units (pretty darn good!). That said, historically and currently, trade sales tend to match overall sales trends. It's the rare exceptions like Mister Miracle that stand out.

It's true that North American trade sales are represented. But trade sales for the rest of the world are not and neither are floppy sales for the rest of the world or Digital sales and that should have an impact on any sales figures.

[Dred]

I would consider your point valid if there was some consistent showing of comics with poor domestic numbers that were kept beyond cancellation date with the reasoning of "It has good overseas sales." I think I've seen that with a couple of fringe books when it comes to digital sales, but they also tend to get the boot when you'd expect.

[KC]

I would consider your point valid if there was some consistent showing of comics with poor domestic numbers that were kept beyond cancellation date with the reasoning of "It has good overseas sales." I think I've seen that with a couple of fringe books when it comes to digital sales, but they also tend to get the boot when you'd expect.

The fact is we have no way to know if books are saved by sales outside of North America. We don't know if sales outside of North America are even looked at by companies.

[Dred]

The fact is we have no way to know if books are saved by sales outside of North America. We don't know if sales outside of North America are even looked at by companies.

If the sales were enough to matter then it would affect cancellation numbers. If they mattered then the companies would speak about it...ever. They're not shy to brag about success, no matter where it is. You can deduce it's minimal in impact. I imagine a lot of the smaller books that this would even affect don't even bother getting translated and sent abroad, just the safe picks that already sell well so it doesn't matter.

[KC]

If the sales were enough to matter then it would affect cancellation numbers. If they mattered then the companies would speak about it...ever. They're not shy to brag about success, no matter where it is. You can deduce it's minimal in impact. I imagine a lot of the smaller books that this would even affect don't even bother getting translated and sent abroad, just the safe picks that already sell well so it doesn't matter.

We don't know if they do affect cancellation numbers. Companies do brag about how successful their books are, but I have never seen them use Comichron numbers specifically to back that up. Every Marvel and DC book is shipped to my local stores and I don't live in North America.

[Frontier]

No doubt, but that still doesn't change the fact that like power girl who's a different take on Supergirl, Earth 2 can definitely exist along with JSA.

I don't think Power Girl is a great example since she is still distinctive from Supergirl to the point where she was relatively successfully brought into the main universe.

The classic JSA and Earth-2 as it was can't exist unless you drastically re-worked the concept of Earth-2.

and the relationship really went down hill once pre-52 Wally was introduced. Their relationship was approving but once pre-52 wally appeared, they wanted to distant nu wally from his supporting cast. It didn't just magically happen.

Their relationship seemed to become more of a thing after pre-52 Wally came back. Their relationship only really started to go downhill once Wallace learned that Barry knew Daniel West was Wallace' dad. He got a lot more panel time in the first 25 or so issues then I think OG!Wally did.

Seeing as the founding members have almost always been together. (Hal and Cyborg being sent away), I disagree with this.

Ironically a New 52 thing .

Oh no doubt, but the problem is when you have an echo chamber like the classic fan comic book medium, what's considered "disliked concepts." is very varied. Just because the classic fandom disliked a certain concept or character, doesn't mean it's a bad concept or character. We again, only need to point to Miles Morales for that. His introduction to the MU caused hell on the forums here, and a award winning movie shut the haters mouth real quick.

Conversely just because some fans like or are fine with a certain concept or character doesn't necessarily make it less problematic or less of an issue.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. While there are obviously certain tastes that varies (Barry vs Pre-52 Wally for example.) There's still multiple unifying fronts that is seen among classic fans. Resistance to change and wanting things to stay with the status quo. Resistance to newer characters and especially minority based books. Etc.

I'd say even that can vary among "classic" fans, just as "newer" fans might like the older stuff more then the modern stuff or might not be.

Example: Wanting Cyborg to remain as a founding member of the JLA and add diversity to the founding members? - New 52 Fan.
Wanting Cyborg to revert to Titans to remind them of their old days? - Classic Fans.

At this point I think people who look at Cyborg's founding status are more fans of Cyborg as a concept then New 52 fans.

Of course not all fit in every single category. But the labels are there for a reason. There's an underlying similarity of interest that is seen widely that demographic.

It still seems very reductive and generalized.

Correction, Rebirth was against most characters and concepts of the new 52, and classic fans try to apply their dislike towards concepts/characters
as if it was universally disliked when it clearly wasn't.

I mean, I think in some cases they were. Like, Amazon Rape Camps? The New 52 Teen Titans? So much mythos and history being taken away? I think the majority opinion is that those weren't things that needed to be kept around indefinitely.

Because it's not about active minority heroes, it's about solo series where they can be main stars, and that was the problem. In the 2000 era before new 52, minority solo series were barely being introduced because of the belief that they couldn't sell, and the very few mini series that was release crashed and burn. New 52 allowed certain characters to raise in importance, and get long lasting solo series. For example, Cyborg mini series under Titans sold like meh, especially at that time, while it took what, 2 years? For JLA cyborg to reach low sales, and once again that was due to execution (which they're barely fixing to this day.)

Again, I don't think the New 52 was as much of an impetus for that as you think, especially since those minority-led titles during the New 52...honestly didn't end up being so successful or handled all that well.

Like, did anyone care about New 52 Mr. Terrific? Especially compared to Post-Crisis Mr. Terrific?

The reboot didn't seem like an incentive for more minority-led titles it just seemed like it came out as a byproduct of different publishing initiatives.

I said characters, not concepts. Big difference. Of course if a classic fan prefer pre-52 superman concept, and a new 52 fan prefer new 52 superman concept, they're going to want to see their version of the concept represented, because it's the same character. But you will not see a new 52 fan say "I want Aquaman to go into Limbo." just because he has classic routes.

I've seen New 52 fans who wanted Jon Kent gone.

And Steve Trevor or pretty much anything and anyone Greg Rucka introduced in his Rebirth run.

I doubt anyone would want Aquaman in limbo since he's one of the few characters who's New 52 Reboot was unanimously well-liked, especially since it was actually a return to classic Aquaman compared to other New 52 reboots.

I just don't see any real evidence that New 52 fans are more magnanimous then so-called "Classic" fans.

While you only need to visit this thread to see the "culling" of newer bat characters requesting to be removed.

So yes, there is definitely a difference. And if you don't want to see it, that's on you.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...at-Family-quot

I mean, the diverse heroes aren't the only ones people want gone. The same is said for a lot of the 90's Batfamily too.

[Konja7]

We don't know if they do affect cancellation numbers. Companies do brag about how successful their books are, but I have never seen them use Comichron numbers specifically to back that up. Every Marvel and DC book is shipped to my local stores and I don't live in North America.

The point is that Comichron still represent the comic sales at some levels.

Maybe it isn't really exact and there are can be exceptions, but it's still relatively consistent.

When we have many "failures" in Comichron surving or many "success" being cancelled, we can speak about stop using this to measure sales.


I really doubt the international market is so important for DC (comics usually don't sell so much in an international market). They would probably try to attract more attention from international audience if this was an important buyer.

In your country, maybe all DC and Marvel comics are shipped, but the amount of these can be pretty minor compared with North America. Also, there are many contries where comics aren't shipped.

[KC]

The point is that Comichron still represent the comic sales at some levels.

Maybe it isn't really exact and there are can be exceptions, but it's still relatively consistent.

When we have many "failures" in Comichron surving or many "success" being cancelled, we can speak about stop using this to measure sales.


I really doubt the international market is so important for DC (comics usually don't sell so much in an international market). They would probably try to attract more attention from international audience if this was an important buyer.

In your country, maybe all DC and Marvel comics are shipped, but the amount of these can be pretty minor compared with North America. Also, there are many contries where comics aren't shipped.

The "level" that it represents isn't representative of the whole community and so it should not be used to show what the community is buying.

The market outside of North America, while not as big as the NA market, is still big enough that it should be represented.

Every shop I have been in has a lot of every title from DC and Marvel.

[iron chimp]

The "level" that it represents isn't representative of the whole community and so it should not be used to show what the community is buying.

The market outside of North America, while not as big as the NA market, is still big enough that it should be represented.

Every shop I have been in has a lot of every title from DC and Marvel.

Marvel and dc publish well over 100 titles a month between them - the amount of shops carrying every title on the shelves will be miniscule to non existant.