Are careers just outdated?

[Flash Gordon]

Looking at the histories of Marvel and DC, the heroes that have caused the most damage are the ones who weren't accountable. I mean, we all remember what caused Civil War, right?

No otherwise everyone would be a superhero. Also, that would be just as boring as making every one a state sponsored superhero.

Not everyone would be a superhero. You really think THAT many people are so altruistic that they'd lay their life on the line day in and day out? I mean if you do, I guess that's beautiful man. Superheroes would be hella rare. Some people just care more than others, but the mask would prevent Dr. Doom from extorting their elderly neighbour.

I don't care about Civil War, the film was more interesting than the comic. That said, at least I know where I stand with the Scorpion. Wal-Mart Man, I'm not so sure.

[Agent Z]

Not everyone would be a superhero. You really think THAT many people are so altruistic that they'd lay their life on the line day in and day out? I mean if you do, I guess that's beautiful man. Superheroes would be hella rare. Some people just care more than others, but the mask would prevent Dr. Doom from extorting their elderly neighbour.

I don't care about Civil War, the film was more interesting than the comic. That said, at least I know where I stand with the Scorpion. Wal-Mart Man, I'm not so sure.

Then why would the everyday person need a mask if not all of them are superheroes?

You can like which ever version of Civil War but it doesn't change that unaccountable superheroes have proven no more trust worthy than state sponsored ones.

[Killerbee911]

Nah, good writing is good writing. A corporate "hero" is terrifying, and a state sponsored individual would be a rare occurrence.

Every day people are more heroic than multimillionaire elites. They would be the norm. People who get up everyday despite the odds being stacked against them, and press on. People with diverse supporting casts full of people from all walks of life.

Waxing philosophical doesn't you make you right. The norm in real life is Police, Firefighters and EMT paid by the government/state or national guard paid by the government/state. When was last time you heard of a private militia of citizens patrolling their city to lower crime? Yes everyday people are more heroic than elites but most developed countries have laws and no government in world with superheroes wouldn't have superheroes working for them. Superheroes running without any oversight and specific training that is a fantasy.

And the fantasy doesn't hold up which is most heroes today tend to work for government or private sector group okayed by the government( think private firefighters in real life) and it is why pretty much every hero secret identity is learned by family and friends in relatively short time. See Nova, Miles Morales, Khamela Khan. And once again I am not saying every hero should be like this they are plenty of room for lawyers, reporters ,Private detectives, Scientists, Teachers, Archaeologists, Astronauts, Bounty Hunters, MMA fighter, Psychiatrists, Musicians, etc.They are tons of jobs that work with it is just that it should probably be the minority instead of in the past when they try to give every hero a regular job. Heroes don't need a real job to be relatable and you can build cast with out a regular job. It being used more selectively is better for the genre


As for corporate hero being "scary", If people are running around save people lives and they are becoming popular to people and have a fanbase. Then just like actors who have a fanbase companies would paid them to sponsor their products and wear their logo



The hero gets money so he doesn't have get a day job, The company gets promotion. It has been done in comics couple times from Youngblood ,Tiger and Bunny,Hero Academia, Spiderman(via Parker industries), X-factor,etc. In fact The Fantastic Four is basically this concept but they are the corporation. The Fantastic four makes money from Reed Inventions and selling their merch.

[ed2962]

What do you mean?

Some creators are more hesitant to create new support characters for a corporate owned series than they were a generation ago. Why create villains and neighbors and co-workers for say the new Black Widow series when I can keep those characters or ideas for my own "Ninja Boy" comic that I'm starting for Dark Horse? I think the "civilian job" thing fits into that as well. Of course, this isn't absolute and there are creators who do create new characters for Marvel/DC ( depending on the contract), but I think this factors into it a bit.

[PCN24454]

I wouldn’t mind the idea of a corporate sponsored Superhero as a I feel “Tiger & Bunny” did it well. While “Heroes for Hire” isn’t exactly what people think of when they here corporate sponsored heroes, I think they fit into the concept as well.

[Killerbee911]

Some creators are more hesitant to create new support characters for a corporate owned series than they were a generation ago. Why create villains and neighbors and co-workers for say the new Black Widow series when I can keep those characters or ideas for my own "Ninja Boy" comic that I'm starting for Dark Horse? I think the "civilian job" thing fits into that as well. Of course, this isn't absolute and there are creators who do create new characters for Marvel/DC ( depending on the contract), but I think this factors into it a bit.

They aren't many new completely original characters created outside of the X-men at Marvel. Most characters created are so spin offs so you are pretty much right. It is hard to think of a character who isn't a spin off of someone (and got a solo book), a quick look up of 2000s up Quake(shield agent), Sentry(reporter), Gravity(student), Blue Marvel(scientist), Alpha(student), America(student),Synapse(?????) and Jessica Jones(detective). From the 90s Echo(basically a ninja) Triathlon(olympic athlete)

On the side of the coin Silk(intern), Nova (student), X-23(student/merc???), Spider Gwen(student), Superior Spiderman( works in a lab),Weapon H(soldier),Winter Soldier, Cho(scientist/student),Noh Varr(alien soldier/scientist???) Phyla-Vell(????) Eric O'Grady(shield agent), Gwenpool(student???), Ironheart (student/scientist) Wasp(student/scientist) Shuri(princess/scientist) .

People can add on to list characters if I forgot someone, I don't think they have stop it is just more rare and for X-men characters(who don't get a superhero origin) they tend to give them jobs Shatterstar( owns a apartment complex) Rictor (owns a nightclub) Domino is a merc, Karma (owns a company) etc...

[Digifiend]

Gwenpool is a mercenary, not a student. Synapse was never shown to have a career away from the Avengers Unity Squad. She might have been fresh out of school.

Good point about the Champions. Presumably Amadeus Cho originally funded them, but he lost his money when his solo ended. Now, I think it's probably Vision who funds the team.

[Kaijudo]

I totally fail to see what's wrong with the whole "adventurer" thing. If a hero has a career that's important to who they are as a character, like Clark Kent being a reporter, then yeah, lean into it. But beyond that? I can't speak for anyone else but these books are fantasies and frankly, a big fantasy of mine is being able to go where I want, when I want, without the trappings of the job I need to survive in the real world. I think calling decisions to not saddle a character like Hawkeye with a gig "lazy" or "uninspired" crosses the line of wanting to see yourself in the characters and goes more into muddying up the fantasy elements with the mundane nature of their own lives.

[Killerbee911]

Here is a couple from the 90s

The 90s

Silver Claw-(Student), War Machine- Military, Squirrel Girl(Student) Celia Reyes(Doctor) Maggot(?????), Scarlet Spider Ben(odd Jobs& Scientist), Scarlet Spider Kaine(merc????)Dr. Nemesis, Genis-Vell (Alien Navy ??), Blink(Student) Marrow(merc) Bishop(Cop), Gambit(thief) Cable(merc) Deadpool(merc) Domino (merc) Living Lightning(security) Darkhawk(Police)

More thoughts after looking up a bunch of these guys

- Marvel isn't creating a lot of solo heroes in general so you aren't getting much of the superhero origin stuff (you know job, a cast of characters, villains)

- Most heroes Marvel that are created seem to be anti-heroes types (so merc/solider/assassin type stuff) or Students(they don't much of a life story or real job)

- Most adult heroes have work backgrounds but most heroes are in either the X-men or Avengers( or some hero group) You don't need work/career unless you are in a solo book or you aren't actively seeing them work in a team book.

- Most older heroes in Marvel have already played out the secret identity trope to its limits you have the Daredevils and Spiderman who are stuck firmly in the trope. Iron Man, Hawkeye, Captian America, Falcon, etc They have all just move on or it wasn't ever really a big part of their DNA as a character

Lastly, it has been done before. What new job type that has been created over the last 50 years that is an amazing fit for a superhero story Instagram model? Blogger? Youtuber? Extreme sports athlete? Hacker? Unexploded Ordnance technician? First, you have to get them to create an adult solo hero. Then it is putting them in a job that has been done before and all the stuff has been done Fighter Pilot, Race car driver, Stuntman, Reporter, Lawyer, Archaeologist, Astronaut, Photographer, Actor/Model, Scientist.Wealthy Buisnessman etc.Yes you can put a new spin of them but it has pretty much been done.

[PCN24454]

Here is a couple from the 90s

The 90s

Silver Claw-(Student), War Machine- Military, Squirrel Girl(Student) Celia Reyes(Doctor) Maggot(?????), Scarlet Spider Ben(odd Jobs& Scientist), Scarlet Spider Kaine(merc????)Dr. Nemesis, Genis-Vell (Alien Navy ??), Blink(Student) Marrow(merc) Bishop(Cop), Gambit(thief) Cable(merc) Deadpool(merc) Domino (merc) Living Lightning(security) Darkhawk(Police)

More thoughts after looking up a bunch of these guys

- Marvel isn't creating a lot of solo heroes in general so you aren't getting much of the superhero origin stuff (you know job, a cast of characters, villains)

- Most heroes Marvel that are created seem to be anti-heroes types (so merc/solider/assassin type stuff) or Students(they don't much of a life story or real job)

- Most adult heroes have work backgrounds but most heroes are in either the X-men or Avengers( or some hero group) You don't need work/career unless you are in a solo book or you aren't actively seeing them work in a team book.

- Most older heroes in Marvel have already played out the secret identity trope to its limits you have the Daredevils and Spiderman who are stuck firmly in the trope. Iron Man, Hawkeye, Captian America, Falcon, etc They have all just move on or it wasn't ever really a big part of their DNA as a character

Lastly, it has been done before. What new job type that has been created over the last 50 years that is an amazing fit for a superhero story Instagram model? Blogger? Youtuber? Extreme sports athlete? Hacker? Unexploded Ordnance technician? First, you have to get them to create an adult solo hero. Then it is putting them in a job that has been done before and all the stuff has been done Fighter Pilot, Race car driver, Stuntman, Reporter, Lawyer, Archaeologist, Astronaut, Photographer, Actor/Model, Scientist.Wealthy Buisnessman etc.Yes you can put a new spin of them but it has pretty much been done.

But what about when superhero teams and antiheroes get played out as well?

[Killerbee911]

But what about when superhero teams and antiheroes get played out as well?

Who knows what the next wave of things is going to be. Note I have never said that Career are not needed I have said that it makes the most sense as "the rare thing". The most popular heroes Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Flash, Daredevil,etc are still career /Secret identity types. I am just saying Iron Man, Wolverine, Venom, Captain America, Hulk, Deadpool, Punisher, Dr Strange, Thor, Black Widow are fine without that set up as most heroes. If 90% heroes are "adventurers" as the OP call it then it is fine.

[HandofPrometheus]

Because those are what makes sense

1. Military/ Government supported/ Corporation supported hero

2. Extremely wealthy person

3. Owner of your own business (reasonable wealthy)

4. Independent contractor or freelancer-You work for someone but you have extreme control over your hours

If a job doesn't fall into one of these categories it really doesn't make any sense for superheroes . It is almost impossible for a hero to have 9 to 5 job with a boss and most jobs fall into this area. The creativity jobs in the past was kinda bad writing and most writer today take craft a little bit more seriously. Everyone loves Superman/Clark Kent as reporter but he disappears so much that Perry would have fired him long time ago and that is just bad writing. Superman as Freelancer reporter makes sense,He controls his hours,him disappearing isn't a issue ,etc but that doesn't put him in the office.

And the office is actually important part not the job .The office created a supporting cast of characters and ways to interact with people. And that is what the writers today have learn to do better which is create supporting cast without using traditional jobs. The other part of the trope was as people mention to was emphasize the secret identity but just think about how many times can you "disappear" from a job without a excuse and not get fired?

I am not saying that genre should get rid all heroes who have secret identities and normal jobs but the genre makes more sense when it is the rare thing

Hard agree. Heroes having realistic jobs would no way work unless you come up with something like being favored by the boss i.e Clark Kent. Some heroes have story arcs where they disappear for months or weeks and you can bet their ass is getting fired.

Not to mention that's going to be pretty exhausting on them especially if they have a 9-5 job every day through the week. Plus writers are going to have to keep writing around it to the point where you won't even see the character show up at work anymore.