Cyttorak vs Thor

[MichaelC]

Cyttorak vs Thor

[Sharpandpointies]

Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #44. Cytorrak sends his own Crimson Bands to stop Galactus' vessel (the same one from 'then let silence reign', as I recall). His bands snag both Strange and Nova (yes, Herald of Galactus Nova), easily imprisoning both of them. Strange gets caught up on Cytorrak's crystals, and his best counterspells do nothing to them. We then find out that Cytorrak isn't even AWARE that Strange calls upon his Crimson Bands -- ie, he feels nothing when Strange uses his energies to pull off magic that withstands supernovas and the like. That's...a lot of power.

We then find out that Cytorrak's 'body' isn't him; he's basically the entire realm/dimension/universe, and just makes his 'body' as an avatar to chat.

I'm not seeing Thor taking this one.

[Beadle]

The one who’s more or less a skyfather type.

Not Odin-level; more a crimson-haired stepchild kinda skyfather; but that sort of level nonetheless.

[k von doom]

^ Okay, if Cytorrak has so much power to burn that he doesn't even feel it when Dr Strange uses said power, why should Cytorrak be considered less than Odin? Cytorrak let's anyone freely use his power; AFAIK even Dormammu has used Cytorrak's power; yet Odin needs the Odinsleep.

[Pendaran]

It's not as though people are making constant use of his power, the bands are tricky to learn and use correctly. And when they do it's not as though they're drawing on some significant portion of it as far as what they do with it.

[The Arbiter]

It's not as though people are making constant use of his power, the bands are tricky to learn and use correctly. And when they do it's not as though they're drawing on some significant portion of it as far as what they do with it.

"Withstanding supernova" sure sounds significant as far as what they do with it lol.

I suppose everything is relative. Like Classic Odin wouldnt think much of supernova

[Pendaran]

"Withstanding supernova" sure sounds significant as far as what they do with it lol.

I suppose everything is relative. Like Classic Odin wouldnt think much of supernova

That's what I mean. On the scale of what Cyttorak purportedly is, it isn't like people are doing a whole lot with his power.

[k von doom]

"Not doing a lot" with it is a rather relative term. When it comes down to it, it does seem to be the go-to spell to get out of a bind. What does it say about Cytorrak when Dormammu, a being with vast loads of power, still prefers to use Cytorrak's power than his own?

[theoneandonly]

and yet the same cyttorak gets his ass handed to him by his avatar the juggernaut.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm perfectly fine, myself, labelling Cyttorak a pretty standard Skyfather, not Skyfather-lite. He/it is a full dimension, he finds heralds to be amusing little creatures, etc. It's a tad above the 'barely squeaks into the category' kind of thing.

It's worth noting that one gets more out of the Crimson Bands, depending on one's power. Doom's aren't the equal of Strange's. Strange's aren't the equal of Furnace Face's. It's pretty clear that more powerful/skilled beings can draw on more of Cyttorak's might. I'm pretty cool with the Dorm calling on Cyttorak, as the latter is clearly better with binding spells and the like. Some invoked people/beings/dimensions are just better than others in specific areas; there's a reason Strange knows how to call upon so many. When people want to create illusions, they call upon Ikonn. When they want to mess around with other people's magic, one of the ones they call upon is Dormammu himself. When they want to bind people...they go with Raggadorr or Cyttorak.

For Dormammu, since the power of the Crimson Bands is still based on his own tremendous might, it makes perfect sense for him to use them.

Odin versus Cyttorak...we don't really have a lot to go on with that one, is the problem, other than 'Both treat heralds like jokes, both are far above Strange'.

and yet the same cyttorak gets his ass handed to him by his avatar the juggernaut.

He didn't in Doctor Strange #44. Found the Juggernaut to be mildly amusing, actually.

[theoneandonly]

well he may have found him so in that issue but then in Unlimited X-MEN 12 they had a cage match in the dimension where he was imprisoned and guess who won. They butted heads again in Juggernaut the eight day one shot and he yet again defeated him and unlike last time he wasn't imprisoned but at the full peak of his powers.

[Sharpandpointies]

I would pose a question on that (which was answered in Strange #44).

Juggernaut's power comes directly from Cyttorak. Setting aside the idea that a small amount of that power allows Strange to do stuff like 'withstand the energies of a supernova' (which is somewhat in excess of where Juggernaut sits -- again, a small part of his power eating the big boom -- and demonstrates how powerful Cyttorak himself would be), how is it that Juggernaut beats up Cyttorak without Cyttorak just saying 'My power, gimme'?

We have PIS layered atop SMvsFL with those wins. It's SMvsFL that Juggernaut can actually take on someone who can, with a fraction of their power, withstand a supernova. It's PIS that Cyttorak didn't just shut Cain down.

[The Arbiter]

I would imagine "classic" Cain could withstand supernova well enough given the Godblast feat.

Total agreement with your other points.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Hasn't it repeatedly been shown that Cyttorak can reduce or actually remove Juggernaut's power at his whim?

[Sharpandpointies]

I would imagine "classic" Cain could withstand supernova well enough given the Godblast feat.

Total agreement with your other points.

My point is that Strange -- in astral form, which makes his spells weaker, a point that is explicitly made again and again throughout the series -- is channelling a weaker version of what is noted as being a fraction of Cyttorak's power (to the point where Cyttorak is all 'hm, you're actually using my power a lot? Hey, cool...didn't know that, catch you later on this*'), and is able to use that to withstand a star exploding in his face (noted in the comic as being, yep, a supernova).

In short, a weaker version of a barely noticeable fraction of Cyttorak's power withstands a supernova.

My point is not that Juggernaut can or can't eat a supernova as well; my point is that I'm not terribly sanguine about the Juggernaut managing against the level of power this demonstrates.

*PS - he does, much to Strange's despair, as part of yet another 'Oh Noes Strange Has Lost His Magic!™ storyline.

Hasn't it repeatedly been shown that Cyttorak can reduce or actually remove Juggernaut's power at his whim?

I can't speak to all of his appearances, but his power comes directly from Cyttorak and in Strange #44 the point is made that yeah, it's rather subject to Cyttorak's whim.