Cyttorak vs Thor

[The Arbiter]

My point was strictly "Cain v Supernova". I agree that a tiny reduced fraction of Cain would not be supernova proof.

And yes, multiple examples exist of Cytorrak flat out stealing away or enhancing the various Juggernauts at the drop of a hat. He should snap his fingers and make Cain a normal dude.

[Sharpandpointies]

My point was strictly "Cain v Supernova".[

I'm not sure I questioned that, myself. Your comment about agreeing with my 'other' points seems to indicate that I did.... :$

Edit: nevermind, I can see the confusion now. I'll edit.

[MichaelC]

"Not doing a lot" with it is a rather relative term. When it comes down to it, it does seem to be the go-to spell to get out of a bind. What does it say about Cytorrak when Dormammu, a being with vast loads of power, still prefers to use Cytorrak's power than his own?

Did the story treat the bands as something Dorm was drawing from an outside source, or just as something magic characters can do? Comics aren't a terribly consistent medium, and writers don't always do their research. So I wouldn't be surprised if some writers forget that magic has three sources for a Marvel wizard, and one of those sources is effectively prayer to an outside being.

[Sharpandpointies]

Did the story treat the bands as something Dorm was drawing from an outside source, or just as something magic characters can do? Comics aren't a terribly consistent medium, and writers don't always do their research. So I wouldn't be surprised if some writers forget that magic has three sources for a Marvel wizard, and one of those sources is effectively prayer to an outside being.

He's for sure conjuring the Crimson Bands and saying so, as well as using other entity entreaties.

But as noted above, there are perfectly good reasons he might do so.

[k von doom]

LT-DS.jpg

What do you make of this, Sharp? The Rings of Raggaddor being used by the LT, surely he'd have more options at binding than invoking one of the Octessence.

[The Arbiter]

The LT started off less as a "Cosmic Judge who sits atop everyone and keeps TOAA's peace" and more of a "I keep tabs on magic gone wrong" kinda figure.

[Sharpandpointies]

What the Arbiter said. We're talking about the first appearance of the LT, where he needed to use 'the Incantation of Oblivion' to destroy all of a planet and Strange thought that was appallingly powerful. The entire idea of the Octessence didn't even exist back then -- they were just entities, and among many, many more. Eternity was Top Dog, not the LT. Etc.

Stuff changes.

By the time Secret Wars II rolls around, we have a Living Tribunal who wouldn't even bother to notice Strange, who wouldn't CARE of Zom were released (Zom being, in the end, nothing compared to the LT), who would obliterate a planet simply by looking at it funny, etc, etc. After that, the Living Tribunal becomes a being who is basically in charge of the Marvel Multiverse, with the capacity to switch off the Infinity Gauntlet with a hard glare, etc.

I would not view those early issues as anything to show capabilities of characters; not the power of the Living Tribunal, nor the capacity of Strange to impress the Living Tribunal with his own ability.

[Siriel]

I can't speak to all of his appearances, but his power comes directly from Cyttorak and in Strange #44 the point is made that yeah, it's rather subject to Cyttorak's whim.

It's also how it's portrayed more recently.

During Fear Itself, Magik and Colossus go talk to him about how Kuurth (Cain)'s rampage is hailing the Serpent rather than himself, at which point Cyttorak gets annoyed and removes the Juggernaut's power, then gives it to Colossus. (Technically he was offering it to Magik but Colossus took it first and he didn't care.)

In the Phoenix Five event, Phoenix-powered Magik and Colossus go to see him again and Colossus asks for him to remove the power from him, Cyttorak refuses (unlike the Serpent he doesn't see the Phoenix as stealing his herald and Colossus gets into far more fights than Cain ever did) and when Colossus tries to attack him he just ignores it and tells them to go back to Earth because they can't fight him.

After Magik depowers Colossus (her Soul Sword trumps the Juggernaut enchantment in Limbo) he sends the Crimson Gem back to Earth to get a new herald. The Living Monolith gets it, Colossus convinces Cyttorak to empower him again with far more power than the Juggernaut ever had because clearly this time isn't going to work any better than the previous ones, Cyttorak accepts and depowers the Living Monolith, but powers up Cain again instead of Colossus.

So even just in fairly recent years there's a fair amount of examples of who actually holds Crimson Gem not mattering at all and Cyttorak doing whatever he wants with the power up.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Cyttorak is great, cuz he honestly doesn't care who gets the power so ping as they destroy all sorts of stuff with it.