Why haven't any other Gods caught on other than Thor?

[GodThor]

I never liked MCU Thor much, way too funny especially during parody Ragnarok.

he was good in IW though.

GoW Thor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCU Thor

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I never liked MCU Thor much, way too funny especially during parody Ragnarok.

he was good in IW though.

GoW Thor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MCU Thor

You know Marvel are trying to get their IP into games. And the problem is how do you do a Marvel Thor game when you now have God of War?

Maybe if they made it a PC or XBOX exclusive. The Thor game for non-Playstation consoles.

Because in games now, Marvel's version of Thor is not the only game in town whereas it is for every other medium.

[GodThor]

You know Marvel are trying to get their IP into games. And the problem is how do you do a Marvel Thor game when you now have God of War?

Maybe if they made it a PC or XBOX exclusive. The Thor game for non-Playstation consoles.

Because in games now, Marvel's version of Thor is not the only game in town whereas it is for every other medium.

there is Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 coming out but that's about Avengers and X-men and not Thor exclusive.

[DoctorWho]

In MCU all characters are made humorous in relation to the comics. Like Iron Man before RDJ wasn't such a goofball. He was in fact a bit of a bore. See Warren Ellis' Extremis for Pre-RDJ Tony's character. Everybody quips more in the MCU than their comics counterpart does. So I don't see MCU Thor as exceptional in that regard.

MCU Thor being a comedic or slightly goofy figure is not far from the Myths. So in some sense MCU Thor is closer to that. I have to say I was really impressed with Thor in INFINITY WAR, he was awesome there and that's my favorite version of the Marvel character. Especially that line, "What else do I have to lose?" and he learns the answer, it's not him losing but others suffering on account of his defeat which as you can see in the Endgame trailers, does a number on him.

I wouldn't say all of them, we still have Captain America and Black Widow, which are mostly not comedic aside from a few scenes, and I would argue that MCU Hawkeye is actually less humorous than his comic counterpart. But yeah, I get your point. The thing is, how do the characters that are humorous in the comics work their into the movies now? Like, if Hercules' selling point is that he is a funnier Thor, how would he fit in a world where Thor is already the funnier Thor?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I wouldn't say all of them, we still have Captain America and Black Widow, which are mostly not comedic aside from a few scenes, and I would argue that MCU Hawkeye is actually less humorous than his comic counterpart. But yeah, I get your point. The thing is, how do the characters that are humorous in the comics work their into the movies now? Like, if Hercules' selling point is that he is a funnier Thor, how would he fit in a world where Thor is already the funnier Thor?

Cap still has his humorous bits. Like the first movie has him with the whole "fondueing" thing. Whedon also had him be the fish-out-of-water guy. The Russos largely made him a more serious guy, with a dryer sense of humor.

Maybe you can find another angle to Hercules. Like you can do something like Ben Kingsley's Mandarin but with a Gaiman twist. He's the real mythological Hercules but he's blended in modern society and doesn't give a damn about heroism, and is making money posing as an actor/wrestler called Hercules. So you can him be a glory hound interested only in fame and so on. You can have Simon Williams in his corner and now that you have Deadpool, have him be part of that. There's more than enough room for one funny hero. Like Drax is also more humorous and sillier than the comics counterpart. And they made him a one-of-a-kind character, who can forget "Why is Gamora?"I personally think Hercules will be in the TV Shows. Right now Feige has his plate full integrating the X-Men, and finding a way at last to make the Fantastic Four work (if more for Dr. Doom's sake than for Reed's).

I think there's at least one more Thor movie coming up. You have to do the battle with the Midgard Serpent eventually.

[DoctorWho]

Cap still has his humorous bits. Like the first movie has him with the whole "fondueing" thing. Whedon also had him be the fish-out-of-water guy. The Russos largely made him a more serious guy, with a dryer sense of humor.

Maybe you can find another angle to Hercules. Like you can do something like Ben Kingsley's Mandarin but with a Gaiman twist. He's the real mythological Hercules but he's blended in modern society and doesn't give a damn about heroism, and is making money posing as an actor/wrestler called Hercules. So you can him be a glory hound interested only in fame and so on. You can have Simon Williams in his corner and now that you have Deadpool, have him be part of that. There's more than enough room for one funny hero. Like Drax is also more humorous and sillier than the comics counterpart. And they made him a one-of-a-kind character, who can forget "Why is Gamora?"I personally think Hercules will be in the TV Shows. Right now Feige has his plate full integrating the X-Men, and finding a way at last to make the Fantastic Four work (if more for Dr. Doom's sake than for Reed's).

I think there's at least one more Thor movie coming up. You have to do the battle with the Midgard Serpent eventually.

What I mean is that Hercules, as he is in the comics, would be very similar to Thor now that the one thing that differentiates him the most is already done with MCU Thor. I don't think MCU will use Hercules actually, but if they do they'd have to turn him into a totally different character, like they did with Mantis in GotG2.

[jackolover]

Because he was a Jack Kirby character and a prominent Avenger who also had the fortune of being written and drawn by Walt Simonson.

That seems nebulous. If Jack Kirby made Moby Dick a god by your definition, he would catch on. It’s got to be something intrinsically deeper in the psyche than just the name of a creator.

[jackolover]

Being relatable is only one aspect of heroes, People don't necessarily relate with Deadpool(They did a good job in the movie tho) and he is a popular hero. Okay Thor worked because family and relatability. Okay I am talking across every other Pantheon Mayan, Greek, Roman,Celtic ,Chinese, Egyptian, Japanese ,Slavic, African, Polynesian, Hindu ,Cthulhu, Arthurian, Voodoo, Angelic, Demonic..etc nothing else works? They are so many areas they can be drawing from and in just typing that out yeah I kind answer my question based on the makeup of Marvel and DC staff I should not be surprised they are not good at handling stuff from other cultures.

It is still interesting Thor is really only one that has caught on I mean we have Eternals and demigods like Wonder Woman or Hercules or sort Avatars of gods like Black Panther, Shazam or Moon Knight as what is being used. Should have something else broken out by now I mean through Thor and Norse Mythology shouldn't Baldur,Tyr, Sif, Loki, Valkyries have blown up big as well.

What makes Thor Special?

I’d say it was Thor’s emotion. He puts his all into every fight as though it’s his first and last fight. He yells a lot and it sparks his unbeatable raging brutality that wins every time. But it’s not just that. The reader invests in that; relates to that frustration that is the righteous cause, and wants and wills Thor to win and beat that bad guy. I can’t stress more how Thor is this deep down connection to our own striving for justice in our own lives, and it touches our souls. Thor is very personal. I don’t think other pantheons can deliver on that level.

[jackolover]

From what I know, on my visits to India and pals I hang out with, they have their own comic book tradition and so on. You have a series that prints cheap decent size comics that retell mythological stories for kids. Something like 10 rupees which is basically about a dime or so. So people there already are used to consuming mythology in comics form and those are the legit real thing and cheaply too. That series also does historical biography, i.e. great kings and so on. The art actually in a lot of places was quite good. Especially war action. There's this one character, Abhimanyu, who fights an entire battle with a single chariot wheel as a weapon and keeps fighting till he dies. It's an episode in the Mahabharata. Their epic cycle has so many characters and incidents that you have whole series of character episodes and one shots on figures inside that. Some of the myth stuff isn't far from Journey into Mystery in terms of style and technique. And I wonder if the artists looked at Kirby's stuff but that is fairly obscure. So it'll be hard to compete against that. The comics I talk about are also reprinted in local languages and so on.

Superhero comics from what I gather are obscure in India. People know them from cartoons and movies by and large. Spider-Man is an exception thanks to that newspaper strip which is published in India in many local papers. International comics people read, at least those who speak English, are stuff like Asterix, Tintin, Richie Rich, Casper, and also Donald Duck and Scrooge comics. Indians actually have a big market for non-superhero comics and I think publishers like IDW or independents are losing out big time in not targeting that.



Exactly. As Neil Gaiman spelled out in Sandman and in American Gods, you can only do stuff with religions people don't really believe in anymore.

If I had a preference I would do a thorough Sumerian history, pre-flood hyper-technology corporations planet-wide. That would be stunning mythology. Or Indian nuclear wars that rendered the whole country back to the Stone Age. Missiles, flying vehicles, nukes that destroyed cities. And the characters in each of these suggestions. That would be untold history that was there somewhere in the psyche of some peoples.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

That seems nebulous. If Jack Kirby made Moby Dick a god by your definition, he would catch on. It’s got to be something intrinsically deeper in the psyche than just the name of a creator.

In the case of The Mighty Thor, Kirby is a much bigger part. Remember that Norse myth was forgotten and buried for 1000 years. You will find in Shakespeare's plays many references to Greek and Roman stuff but no reference to Norse stuff. Until the 19th Century, nobody cared for the norse myth and even then the Norse characters revived such as in Wagner's operas are Odin (or Wotan), and the Valkyries and the Siegfried stories. So Thor wasn't always the most popular or most frequently figure in earlier stories.

It was more or less Kirby and Lee who decided to make Thor the central figure of the Norse pantheon for generations of people and thanks to the MCU across the world. The MCU movies are the first exposure many people across the world have to the Norse myths. There has never been a single movie until Kenneth Branagh's Thor to bring those characters to such life on such a scale. Like Greek myths you had Jason and the Argonauts, you had Clash of the Titans, you had on TV Hercules and Xenia, you have the Disney Hercules. Nothing like that was ever done for Norse mythology by Hollywood.

And Kirby making Moby Dick a god (which he is in the original book to an extent) would have been...freaking awesome.

What makes Thor Special?

I’d say it was Thor’s emotion. He puts his all into every fight as though it’s his first and last fight. He yells a lot and it sparks his unbeatable raging brutality that wins every time. But it’s not just that. The reader invests in that; relates to that frustration that is the righteous cause, and wants and wills Thor to win and beat that bad guy. I can’t stress more how Thor is this deep down connection to our own striving for justice in our own lives, and it touches our souls. Thor is very personal. I don’t think other pantheons can deliver on that level.

I am sure there are figures in other pantheons that can have the same effect if they have the elective affinities with the right artist and team. Kirby and Simonson among others did a great deal to produce that effect on you and others in their takes on Thor.

[jackolover]

In the case of The Mighty Thor, Kirby is a much bigger part. Remember that Norse myth was forgotten and buried for 1000 years. You will find in Shakespeare's plays many references to Greek and Roman stuff but no reference to Norse stuff. Until the 19th Century, nobody cared for the norse myth and even then the Norse characters revived such as in Wagner's operas are Odin (or Wotan), and the Valkyries and the Siegfried stories. So Thor wasn't always the most popular or most frequently figure in earlier stories.

It was more or less Kirby and Lee who decided to make Thor the central figure of the Norse pantheon for generations of people and thanks to the MCU across the world. The MCU movies are the first exposure many people across the world have to the Norse myths. There has never been a single movie until Kenneth Branagh's Thor to bring those characters to such life on such a scale. Like Greek myths you had Jason and the Argonauts, you had Clash of the Titans, you had on TV Hercules and Xenia, you have the Disney Hercules. Nothing like that was ever done for Norse mythology by Hollywood.

And Kirby making Moby Dick a god (which he is in the original book to an extent) would have been...freaking awesome.



I am sure there are figures in other pantheons that can have the same effect if they have the elective affinities with the right artist and team. Kirby and Simonson among others did a great deal to produce that effect on you and others in their takes on Thor.

On your point Lee and Kirby picked Thor because he was unknown, I think what made Thor intriguing was more that Thor had mysterious powers for a God. Thunderer, shooting lighting, streaked across the sky, used hammer to do spectacular acts. This is what we knew about Thor, and, it was his name. Thor. That rings in the mind. He sounded like a child, because he was a son of Odin, but he came across as more powerful than Odin.

On your point on elective affinities, I don’t think you can transfer similar emotional responses like Thor gives us, to another God so easily. They tried with Namor and it worked to an extent, but he hated humans. Thor was kindly, could walk in crowds and be respected. How are other gods going to achieve similar status to what Thor has?

Another thought crossed my mind, that Thor is Nordic. Viking nature, dangerous, silver haired, or red-headed, blue-eyed. There are qualities tied to those traits that resonate with white people, and maybe even non-white people who recognise in those qualities the courage of leaders of their ancesters too. I’m not sure if non-whites love Thor. Are there people who love Thor that are non-white, and why?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

On your point Lee and Kirby picked Thor because he was unknown, I think what made Thor intriguing was more that Thor had mysterious powers for a God. Thunderer, shooting lighting, streaked across the sky, used hammer to do spectacular acts. This is what we knew about Thor, and, it was his name. Thor. That rings in the mind. He sounded like a child, because he was a son of Odin, but he came across as more powerful than Odin.

I never saw Thor as mysterious. I always thought he was in your face what-you-see is what-you-get. Thor's hammer was created by dwarfs, who also made Gungnir and that cape that converts into a ship and the same tale had the same dwarf gift the Aesir with those gifts while also, as usual, getting stiffed by them.

I am not saying the mythological Thor wasn't unique or special. He was like all the Aesir and the Jotunn and the rest are. It's just that the version we get in Marvel is one that Kirby and Lee created on their own. Like if you read the original myths, Thor is often comic relief. Like there's that bit where Loki has him cross-dress and pose as a bride to a giant. He was often dim and not very bright. So it wasn't a given that Thor would or should only be seen the way we know him now.

The other thing about Norse myths is also there's not much literature. Like the Greeks had all these plays and stories that took inspiration from myths and so on, you had none of that with Norse myth. Nothing until Wagner. And when Lee and Kirby were writing, the reference most small children would have would have been that Bugs Bunny cartoon spoof of Wagner.

[jackolover]

I never saw Thor as mysterious. I always thought he was in your face what-you-see is what-you-get. Thor's hammer was created by dwarfs, who also made Gungnir and that cape that converts into a ship and the same tale had the same dwarf gift the Aesir with those gifts while also, as usual, getting stiffed by them.

I am not saying the mythological Thor wasn't unique or special. He was like all the Aesir and the Jotunn and the rest are. It's just that the version we get in Marvel is one that Kirby and Lee created on their own. Like if you read the original myths, Thor is often comic relief. Like there's that bit where Loki has him cross-dress and pose as a bride to a giant. He was often dim and not very bright. So it wasn't a given that Thor would or should only be seen the way we know him now.

The other thing about Norse myths is also there's not much literature. Like the Greeks had all these plays and stories that took inspiration from myths and so on, you had none of that with Norse myth. Nothing until Wagner. And when Lee and Kirby were writing, the reference most small children would have would have been that Bugs Bunny cartoon spoof of Wagner.

I didn’t even have the Bugs Bunny reference when I was a kid. I do remember Thor dressing as a woman though in the stories. That was one impression you got. The other impression was this furious god that could commit winterous destruction. Trying to reconcile the two impressions is hard, but it does show a human dimension to Thor.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Another thought crossed my mind, that Thor is Nordic. Viking nature, dangerous, silver haired, or red-headed, blue-eyed. There are qualities tied to those traits that resonate with white people, and maybe even non-white people who recognise in those qualities the courage of leaders of their ancesters too. I’m not sure if non-whites love Thor. Are there people who love Thor that are non-white, and why?

Both of Mighty Thor's creators, Lee and Kirby, are Jewish, and less than twenty years before that, Nordic people were killing Jewish people in Europe in the millions.Let's not forget that Neil Gaiman who wrote the best known non-Marvel takes on norse myths at least in YA fiction, is also Jewish.

And the director of Thor Ragnarok, Taika Waititi is descendant of New Zealand's ingigenous people who were also wiped out by ethnic cleansing by European colonizers.

So I don't think the appeal about Mighty Thor is him principally being white.

[Killerbee911]

It's a problem if you are putting Cthulhu, a fictitious cosmology invented as a joke by a white supremacist, with the real world religious practises of many non-white cultures. Other cultures are perhaps not all looking forward to be made into a comic book. Hinduism is a major world religion and still practised and worshipped today, and putting them in a hero comic where they might occassionally get beaten up by the Hulk, lose to Thanos and have all kinds of melodrama happen to them will open a huge can of worms that Marvel might not want to deal with. Especially since one of their comics upset Hindu religious officials (https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/12...vel-apologize/).

For Norse Myth, becoming a Marvel icon is the most relevant thing that has ever happened to them. For other cultures, they like the billion plus adherents and temples and living traditions thank you very much.

In mention Cthulhu I was just talking about different angles of approaching the topic,even varying into to deep fiction not necessarily have things in a superhero comics together battle each other but you bring a good point of mixing fiction and religion together

Exactly. As Neil Gaiman spelled out in Sandman and in American Gods, you can only do stuff with religions people don't really believe in anymore.

I am pretty sure American Gods has Kali who is still worship today by some. The same Kali who got the video game Smite who got in trouble for depiction Kali and use of Agni. But yes Typically you leave Christianity,Islam and Hindu Gods out of these things in their strict forms or else you will get some blow back. If you "have" to use them you need to create something similar to get less of an reaction.

What makes Thor Special?

I’d say it was Thor’s emotion. He puts his all into every fight as though it’s his first and last fight. He yells a lot and it sparks his unbeatable raging brutality that wins every time. But it’s not just that. The reader invests in that; relates to that frustration that is the righteous cause, and wants and wills Thor to win and beat that bad guy. I can’t stress more how Thor is this deep down connection to our own striving for justice in our own lives, and it touches our souls. Thor is very personal. I don’t think other pantheons can deliver on that level.

That your love for Thor speaking, I am not trying to insult Thor with these next words but I can find more adaptations in popular media on Sun WuKong or Hercules than Thor. I am not trying to downplay Thor who is very good but I am literally reading the Wicked and Divine by Kieron Gillen and I am watching American Gods by Neil gaiman what you are saying isn't true. We have compelling tales of Gods from different Pantheon outside of Big 2. I don't think problem is the Pantheons themselves. I watch the very awful but entertaining Gods of Egypt and in hands of the right people that would have been something pretty good. Thor has found its angle to tell a great story for me I am just wondering why hasn't something else found its angle in Marvel.