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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Bendis has said after Doomsday Clock certain elements of his run would click for readers and that he hasnít forgotten Manhattanís role in Jor Elís return. So while Bendis could just have retconned Jor El, Iíve long thought thereís more and that the whole run is set after Doomsday Clock.
    That's been my thought. Bendis may not have been able to explain Jor-El's arrival without spoiling elements of other stories that haven't finished yet. Can't really blame Bendis for that.

    Or it could just be a case of Bendis being Bendis.

    That's about the only real issue I have with the "Jor takes Jon for a summer in space" thing; how Jor got away from "him" in the first place. Everything else? It tracks. Clark and Lois let Jon go on crazy adventures through space and time with Damian, and that kid is a little psychopath. Jor at least knew his way around. And Clark was doing all kinds of crazy stuff without the Kents' knowledge or permission when he was only a little older than Jon; all those weekend trips to the far future where his parents had no way to contact him or get him home, when they knew he had left at all.

    Parenting isn't really a Kent strength. They all let their kids get away with stuff most of us wouldn't. They've got a real Darwinian approach to raising children.
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  2. #17
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    That's been my thought. Bendis may not have been able to explain Jor-El's arrival without spoiling elements of other stories that haven't finished yet. Can't really blame Bendis for that.

    Or it could just be a case of Bendis being Bendis.

    That's about the only real issue I have with the "Jor takes Jon for a summer in space" thing; how Jor got away from "him" in the first place. Everything else? It tracks. Clark and Lois let Jon go on crazy adventures through space and time with Damian, and that kid is a little psychopath. Jor at least knew his way around. And Clark was doing all kinds of crazy stuff without the Kents' knowledge or permission when he was only a little older than Jon; all those weekend trips to the far future where his parents had no way to contact him or get him home, when they knew he had left at all.

    Parenting isn't really a Kent strength. They all let their kids get away with stuff most of us wouldn't. They've got a real Darwinian approach to raising children.
    While fully acknowledging that it could just be a Bendis retcon, wouldn’t he have at least acknowledged that by now? Or does he not do that even when it’s obvious? I mean it’s a massive piece of continuity to just gloss over and has undermined his whole story. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit, but I have to think he’d at least have acknowledged the issue otherwise.

    Plus, he’s talked about asking editorial about Jor El’s status after reading Oz Effect and getting confirmation that it was actually going to be Jor El going forward.

    As for the parenting, yeah. The Kent model is some extreme version of free range parenting. Which, when your 10 year old is basically invulnerable gives you a lot of freedom. Honestly, if he hadn’t gotten sucked through an inter dimensional gateway by now he’d probably be missing out on some real life experiences by Superboy standards.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    While fully acknowledging that it could just be a Bendis retcon, wouldn’t he have at least acknowledged that by now? Or does he not do that even when it’s obvious? I mean it’s a massive piece of continuity to just gloss over and has undermined his whole story. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit, but I have to think he’d at least have acknowledged the issue otherwise.

    Plus, he’s talked about asking editorial about Jor El’s status after reading Oz Effect and getting confirmation that it was actually going to be Jor El going forward.
    I'm inclined to think that Bendis is actually playing with others here and not re-designing continuity to fit his whims. I think there's a larger narrative with Jor-El that goes beyond what Bendis is doing with him and ties into the Manhattan stuff, which Bendis can't touch.

    But at the same time.....he's made changes to continuity and totally ignored it in the past. Best example I can think of right now is Nova dying in the cancerverse. When Nova and Star-Lord originally charged into the cancerverse to fight Thanos, the entire universe was collapsing and they only had to hold him off for a minute before they were all crushed into oblivion. When Bendis brought Rich back, he had them fighting in the cancerverse for a long time (days? Weeks? I dont recall) with no sign that the entire reality was collapsing. He never brought up the discrepancy. Though this was also Bendis at his absolute worst, when it seemed that he had stopped doing any research and expected Marvel editorial to bend continuity to his personal demands (which they did).

    As for the parenting, yeah. The Kent model is some extreme version of free range parenting. Which, when your 10 year old is basically invulnerable gives you a lot of freedom. Honestly, if he hadn’t gotten sucked through an inter dimensional gateway by now he’d probably be missing out on some real life experiences by Superboy standards.
    Exactly. And we want Jon to have those character building experiences. So we gotta let him roam deep space with semi-crazy grandparents and explore alternate realities with a kid his own age who is a literal murder machine.
    Last edited by Ascended; 03-22-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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  4. #19
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I'm glad you had that moment, hopefully others who criticize Bendis a lot take a second look at what he is trying to do as well, because he really is delivering a great run with Superman and Action Comics.
    I just don't like his "writing style", so I haven't bothered with picking up any copies since his story in Action Comics #1000.
    (Hearing what happened with Jon isn't helping; Dan Jurgen's run with Convergence: Superman followed by Superman: Lois and Clark was the whole reason I got interested in Superman again.)

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm inclined to think that Bendis is actually playing with others here and not re-designing continuity to fit his whims. I think there's a larger narrative with Jor-El that goes beyond what Bendis is doing with him and ties into the Manhattan stuff, which Bendis can't touch.

    But at the same time.....he's made changes to continuity and totally ignored it in the past. Best example I can think of right now is Nova dying in the cancerverse. When Nova and Star-Lord originally charged into the cancerverse to fight Thanos, the entire universe was collapsing and they only had to hold him off for a minute before they were all crushed into oblivion. When Bendis brought Rich back, he had them fighting in the cancerverse for a long time (days? Weeks? I dont recall) with no sign that the entire reality was collapsing. He never brought up the discrepancy. Though this was also Bendis at his absolute worst, when it seemed that he had stopped doing any research and expected Marvel editorial to bend continuity to his personal demands (which they did).
    I know I put a lot of stock and overanalysis into interviews and the like, but he's explicitly said he's being respectful of what Geoff Johns is doing with Doomsday Clock and trying not to spoil it given the amount of thought and work Johns has put into it. So at least with respect to events impacted by that storyline, of which Jor El is really the only likely candidate (or the Legion as well I suppose) I think it's reasonable to assume that he's taking some of the stuff into account. I agree he is likely trying to play well with his new co-workers. Similarly he's clearly involved with the long term planning on the Superman side of the DCU, so Scott Snyder's Justice League arc is likely playing with what Bendis is setting up as well. The tease of Superman and Jon that Jimenez just tweeted for JL 24 is really interesting given it's either some sort of twisted temptation to Superman to go back to the way things were or a memory.

    I think it's a little unfair at least with respect to Jor El to assume he's just ignoring things for his own ego.

    But another then he did have Doc Sampson appear in Civil War II without any explanation about how he came back from the dead, which actually was just retroactively explained in Immortal Hulk this week!
    Last edited by Yoda; 03-23-2019 at 08:14 AM.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    But another then he did have Doc Sampson appear in Civil War II without any explanation about how he came back from the dead, which actually was just retroactively explained in Immortal Hulk this week!
    Hence why Im not sure if Bendis is ignoring things or playing well with others.

    I agree with you; he's very likely playing well with others. Im almost sure of it. But his history means I can't feel certain of it.

    For myself, I *usually* dont mind a few inconsistencies in the continuity. Continuity never actually makes sense anyway, when you look at it, and if it makes the story better, I usually am fine with ignoring smaller details. So I usually dont mind when Bendis tweaks stuff. But there's still limits.
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  7. #22
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    That's a completely reasonable complaint, but I can understand why Bendis didn't want to get bogged down in clearing up the dangling plot threads of Oz Effect in Man of Steel. Fair point though.
    The trouble with not addressing it at all, though, is that it spoils plot threads down the road.

    Jor and Kal act estranged when Jor shows up, and we have no context at all for this - and it's not provided in any way besides inference. Later, Jon says "Grandpa Jor is crazy!" and our sole context tells us "well, duh! This isn't news. On several levels, most likely." Not to mention that, even later, when Clark says that he "has a blind spot" when it comes to his father.... that both has no context and makes no sense from what we were shown earlier by Bendis. We're supposed to not only block out inconvenient parts of history, but also add our own vision of addressable context so that this line makes sense.

    I can still roll with it, but not without those things constantly nagging away since it's so central to and/or associated with the plot, respectively.
    Last edited by JAK; 03-26-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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