Slott announcing a return to Spider-Man?

[PCN24454]

Spider-Man and Torch vs. Sandman is your go to for a bad Lee-Ditko issue?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Spider-Man and Torch vs. Sandman is your go to for a bad Lee-Ditko issue?

Just tossing that one there. Ditko didn't like that issue. Lee insisted on that, and so Ditko made a story entirely about Spidey and Torch fighting and bickering with each other while Sandman got away. So it's a pretty mean spirited comic, where Ditko was d--king over Lee. It's probably still better than other bad issues, because this was a very solid consistent run.

I am sure others can join in for the Ditko roast.

[NC_Yankee]

That's a low-point in two good runs, and not bad a run in and of itself. Tail end of Lee-Romita and early Conway (who had to continue where Lee left off, and only got to do what he wanted with 121-122). Not everything before the Clone Saga and BND was good, and not everything during the Clone Saga and BND is bad. You can have bad and weak moments and weak issues in strong runs. What we are talking here is generalizations. Saying the Clone Saga and the Post-Clone Saga is generally bad, which they are in my view (and also the general consensus, even those who defend the Clone Saga do it with an air of apology and so-bad-its-good mentality), doesn't mean that everything inside the Saga and so on is bad.

It's just that overall run, you have to make a judgment call. The Lee-Ditko is consistent from start-to-finish, maybe some weak issues (like the Spidey-Torch vs. Sandman one). The Lee-Romita is great but it's strength rests on two peaks (39-51, and around 83-84-98), while the middle is less consistent and more uneven, and the tail end is pretty weak. In Conway's Run, the opening 10 issues where he mostly tried to imitate Lee and spun threads on hat status-quo and plot points wasn't as good as when he got to break from that in 121-122 and set about doing his run. Dennis O'Neill who wrote Spider-man for some 20 issues between Wolfman and Stern is also considered to be among the weakest runs in Spider-Man, some argue weakest overall. I'd put Byrne below him. This is a guy with talent (as was Byrne), Batman's most decisive and influential writer/editor and he dropped the ball on Spider-Man but he still contributed some elements like Hydro Man, Madame Web, Calypso. His idea of Madame Web knowing Peter's secret was a genie that Stern put in the battle in his legendary Juggernaut two-parter.

As far as Romita/Lee is concerned: Maybe I am in the minority but I enjoyed the Tablet Arc ( especially issue 77 (Lizard)).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

As far as Romita/Lee is concerned: Maybe I am in the minority but I enjoyed the Tablet Arc ( especially issue 77 (Lizard)).

The Tablet story is well regarded. But the stuff before and after that in that period (50s to the 80s) is not as consistently on the up-and-up. The real problem with the Lee-Romita era is Gwen Stacy. The opening 12-13 issues where you set up the Coffee Bean era, the love triangle with Peter, Gwen, MJ, Harry and so on. All that is cool. Introducing Rhino, Kingpin also nice.

But the minute Peter and Gwen hook up, the stories kind of halt because this is a romance without chemistry, and a relationship that doesn't deepen either character. And Gwen becomes a pivot for Peter's parent-child substitute with George. There are still good bits and elements in that period of the Lee-Romita era though.

And then of course from 85-86 to 98 stuff picks up again, largely because this is a period where Peter and Gwen are on the outs. He confesses to everyone he's Spider-Man (87) and then says he's fibbing. Then george stacy dies (90), you have the sam Bullitt two-parter which is some of the best political stuff you see in that time (91-92), Gwen goes off to London (93-95), and then the Drug Trilogy (96-98) where Gwen shows up at the end. And then the stories once gain fall in a funk, until Conway drops her off a bridge.

[PCN24454]

Just tossing that one there. Ditko didn't like that issue. Lee insisted on that, and so Ditko made a story entirely about Spidey and Torch fighting and bickering with each other while Sandman got away. So it's a pretty mean spirited comic, where Ditko was d--king over Lee. It's probably still better than other bad issues, because this was a very solid consistent run.

I am sure others can join in for the Ditko roast.

Oh that issue, I was thinking of the one where Torch was captured by Sandman and the Enforcers.

While I understand that superheroes bickering can get annoying(especially after stuff like Civil War and AvX), it made sense when you considered both their personalities back then which is obviously what Ditko was going for when they both wrote it. It's not the best issue, but it's definitely not the worst. You're not wrong in your assessment.

[NC_Yankee]

[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4279604]The Tablet story is well regarded. But the stuff before and after that in that period (50s to the 80s) is not as consistently on the up-and-up. The real problem with the Lee-Romita era is Gwen Stacy. The opening 12-13 issues where you set up the Coffee Bean era, the love triangle with Peter, Gwen, MJ, Harry and so on. All that is cool. Introducing Rhino, Kingpin also nice.

But the minute Peter and Gwen hook up, the stories kind of halt because this is a romance without chemistry, and a relationship that doesn't deepen either character. And Gwen becomes a pivot for Peter's parent-child substitute with George. There are still good bits and elements in that period of the Lee-Romita era though.

And then of course from 85-86 to 98 stuff picks up again, largely because this is a period where Peter and Gwen are on the outs. He confesses to everyone he's Spider-Man (87) and then says he's fibbing. Then george stacy dies (90), you have the sam Bullitt two-parter which is some of the best political stuff you see in that time (91-92), Gwen goes off to London (93-95), and then the Drug Trilogy (96-98) where Gwen shows up at the end. And then the stories once gain fall in a funk, until Conway drops her off a bridge.[/QUO
Spider-Man No More ( Issue 50) is a classic of story and art in thst period. The Vulture story was excellent as well ( maybe the best Vulture story of them all).. As for Gwen, she was always a problem and as soon as MJ popped up, she would be doomed to lose Pete to her.. Why? Because she hated Spider-Man and could never accept both the Spider and the man. Exactly the same problem that Felicia Hardy has but in reverse. There is only one woman who can and that is MJ. The issues where Pete admitted to being Spider-Man actually work better in hindsight.Why? 1:The only two people who knew Pete was Spider-Man were the two who did not turn against him. A: Captain Stacy. B: MJ who as best I recall was not there when he admitted it. 2: This period followed by the death of Captain Stacy set up. A:"The drug issues and the end of the comics code. B: The end of Gwen and the Silver Era of comics.