Snyder's Justice League Appreciation/Discussion

[Flash Gordon]

I've found myself loving this book more and more. I was reading it casually for the weirder stuff but man I REALLY look forward to each issue now. Like, big league look forward to each issue.

[manwhohaseverything]

Speaking of the Silver Age Justice League, I also thought it was an interesting choice for the DCAU to swap out founding member Aquaman with Hawkgirl.

Well, aquaman is a king. It would make jl partial. But, they did have aquaman on the show.Aquaman's membership was kind of like batman's,i think. Aquaman built his own team in the show.

[K. Jones]

Aquaman twist. Had me.

I liked lots of what was going on but that really had me. And got me with the old "OHHHHH FRICKKK OF COURSSSSE".

Also 80s Starman has that upside down star, man. Like how long before his inverted pentacle implies that he's been a traitor since Luthor knocked him out of time?

I LOVE that the Legion of Doom is playing mad havoc with all of the weird high concepts of the DCU. Brainiac's bottling Hypertime like he's Ur-Brainiac back in Convergence or something. Luthor's traveling between the bleed between panels on the pages. So on and so forth.

[MadFacedKid]

Aquaman twist. Had me.

I liked lots of what was going on but that really had me. And got me with the old "OHHHHH FRICKKK OF COURSSSSE".

Also 80s Starman has that upside down star, man. Like how long before his inverted pentacle implies that he's been a traitor since Luthor knocked him out of time?

I LOVE that the Legion of Doom is playing mad havoc with all of the weird high concepts of the DCU. Brainiac's bottling Hypertime like he's Ur-Brainiac back in Convergence or something. Luthor's traveling between the bleed between panels on the pages. So on and so forth.

spoilers:

that twist was honestly pretty insane. With the Mera foreshadowing it hyped it up more and just all the speculation going on in my head now has me hyped. Like is Mobius forming his own third faction to oppose Perpetua/Luthor and The Forger/JLA is their something else at stake that hasnt been revealed yet and thats why Aquaman is allying himself with Mobiis. Does this mean will see Aquaman show more knowledge on the force he's suggested to be connected too amd show some display of power with it? I'm pretty hyped overall

end of spoilers

Honestly thought none of the Drowned Earth stuff would get a follow up in regards to Aquaman and he would get the Darkseid War treatment.

[Robotman]

Aquaman twist. Had me.

I liked lots of what was going on but that really had me. And got me with the old "OHHHHH FRICKKK OF COURSSSSE".

Also 80s Starman has that upside down star, man. Like how long before his inverted pentacle implies that he's been a traitor since Luthor knocked him out of time?

I LOVE that the Legion of Doom is playing mad havoc with all of the weird high concepts of the DCU. Brainiac's bottling Hypertime like he's Ur-Brainiac back in Convergence or something. Luthor's traveling between the bleed between panels on the pages. So on and so forth.

Yeah man, Brainiac bottling potential Hypertime realities is pretty damn high concept. He’s come a long way from miniaturizing cities and putting them in bottles.

[Buried Alien]

Yeah man, Brainiac bottling potential Hypertime realities is pretty damn high concept. He’s come a long way from miniaturizing cities and putting them in bottles.

This ability was hinted at back in CONVERGENCE, was it not?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robotman]

This ability was hinted at back in CONVERGENCE, was it not?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yeah kind of. He was still shrinking cities but basically rescuing them (for selfish reasons) before their time lines ended. He’s now capturing hypothetical time lines which is pretty crazy.

[Buried Alien]

Yeah kind of. He was still shrinking cities but basically rescuing them (for selfish reasons) before their time lines ended. He’s now capturing hypothetical time lines which is pretty crazy.

Perhaps it's a trick he picked up from Telos back during CONVERGENCE.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This was a lot of fun. Glad to see this book stop treading water and just go all out.

[JBatmanFan05]

I view The Batman Who Laughs series to be part of Snyder's Justice League run and I think a future event (sequel to Metal) will basically confirm this.

If you view it this way, what is the best place (in reading order) to place The Batman Who Laughs HC?

I need some help there.

[lemonpeace]

I view The Batman Who Laughs series to be part of Snyder's Justice League run and I think a future event (sequel to Metal) will basically confirm this.

If you view it this way, what is the best place (in reading order) to place The Batman Who Laughs HC?

I need some help there.

definitely after the totality arc, I'd say probably after drowned earth but that's just a stab in the dark.

[SecretWarrior]

Speaking of the Silver Age Justice League, I also thought it was an interesting choice for the DCAU to swap out founding member Aquaman with Hawkgirl.

Here's what Bruce Timm had to say:

She’s the second most controversial member of the cast. People were saying, “Why Hawkgirl? Why not Hawkman?” Well, she’s cooler! Again, we felt that we needed to have another woman in the group—we like women, you know. And we [also] felt that the Hawk family had to be represented, because of the icons that they are. And we decided that, “Well, we don’t want to have both of them, so let’s just have Hawkgirl.” And, personally, I’ve always loved that Hawkgirl design, ever since I saw it when I was a kid. I think her mask is cooler. I think she’s got an overall better shape.

http://jl.toonzone.net/hawkgirl/hawkgirl.htm

I like this roster most:





Feels both modern and classic, and it's not so big that each character couldn't receive focus. Pretty similar to the rosters used in JL: Crisis on Two Earths (originally intended to be a DCAU film) and JL: Doom.

[Frontier]

Here's what Bruce Timm had to say:



http://jl.toonzone.net/hawkgirl/hawkgirl.htm

I like this roster most:





Feels both modern and classic, and it's not so big that each character couldn't receive focus. Pretty similar to the rosters used in JL: Crisis on Two Earths (originally intended to be a DCAU film) and JL: Doom.

I'd say it's more similar to the roster in Justice League vs. Fatal Five since you have Miss Martian in place of J'onn. Just substitute Jessica for John and Mr. Terrific for Flash.

Not surprised Timm preferred Hawkgirl though. Although I'm kind of surprised he felt the Hawks warranted a presence on the team more then Aquaman did.

[SecretWarrior]

I'd say it's more similar to the roster in Justice League vs. Fatal Five since you have Miss Martian in place of J'onn. Just substitute Jessica for John and Mr. Terrific for Flash.

Not surprised Timm preferred Hawkgirl though. Although I'm kind of surprised he felt the Hawks warranted a presence on the team more then Aquaman did.

They didn't want to have just one woman on the team, and Bruce liked her design.

"One of the things we toyed with at the time was doing a Superman show that was half Superman and half the Justice League, where it was almost a Superman team-up show. At that point, when we talked about doing a back door Justice League show, some of the lineup we picked for that pitch were not the standard Justice League characters. I don't think Flash was in it, John Stewart was. Wonder Woman wasn't in it. So it was much more the kind of Justice League that was going on in the comics world at that time. You have to remember that the classic lineup of the Justice League wasn't really in existence in the early '90s. That's one thing I'll give Grant Morrison a lot of credit for. He was the one who went to DC and said, 'You know, if you want to revitalize Justice League, you've got to go back to the original seven, that core iconic group,' and he was right. By the time we got around to doing the actual Justice League show, Grant Morrison's idea had already implemented in the comics and we looked at that and said, 'Yeah, that's a really smart idea.' And we also learned from Marvel's mistake.

"When Marvel did their Avengers show in the '90s, they made a radical mistake by not having the Avengers be Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man, plus the other guys. They made it just the other guys, and anybody who's a comic book fan, when they hear there's an Avengers show, you want to see the big three and you feel a little bit cheated when you don't see them. All of these things were going through our minds when we decided on the lineup for Justice League. Really, the only ones that were even somewhat controversial among ourselves was which Green Lantern to choose. Hawkman or Hawkgirl? I instantly voted for Hawkgirl. It was purely an aesthetic thing; I have just always loved the Hawkgirl costume and the design of her helmet. I also thought we could afford to have an extra girl on the team, joining Wonder Woman.

"In the end, and despite the fact that a number of heroes were considered for the lineup, the final members of the Justice League were Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, J'onn J'onzz, Green Lantern (John Stewart), the Flash, and Hawkgirl. There wasn't a whole lot of argument going on. We all decided very quickly and easily on the lineup and from that point on it was just a matter of sitting down, talking about the characters and saying, 'These are who we're going to use. What do they do? What about their characters informs the way they act?'

"Basically we wanted to keep the show to the core seven the first two seasons. We wanted to keep it limited, because the majority of the episodes didn't have all seven of them in it. There were just too many damn characters. They won't get enough screen time to make an impact if there's seven of them every single episode. Somebody would have to be Chekov; somebody would be saying, 'Hailing frequencies open, Captain.' So we always had to pare it down.

"They were basically the same guy wearing different colors with slightly different powers. That's why even in Season One we tried to make sure the characters were very individual from each other. Sometimes you go for the easy stereotype—Green Lantern is the hardcore military guy, Flash is the goofball young guy, Wonder Woman is the stuck-up Amazon princess, Hawkgirl is the battle-ready whatever. You start with those broad characteristics and then try to add more flavors to them so that they're more dimensional. In Season Two, we tried to expand on that even more.

"There is something cool about seeing these heroes team up. God knows why, because it doesn't really make sense. It doesn't even work dramatically in a lot of ways, but going back to the Golden Age and the Justice Society, they somehow struck gold when they started teaming those characters up. As cool as it is to see Batman and Superman by themselves, you get them together with Green Lantern and Hawkman, and suddenly it's cooler. I don't know why we have this desire to see these guys team up, but it's cool and there's no denying it (courtesy of RetroVision CD-ROM Magazine).”

http://jl.toonzone.net/002/002.htm

Here's the JL: Crisis on Two Earths intro, which was supposed to feature John:



Here's a frame from JL: Doom's intro.



Side note: I like the Martian logo here more than the current one used in the comics.

[Frontier]

They didn't want to have just one woman on the team, and Bruce liked her design.

I get that. Again, just kind of weird to put more value in the Hawks then Aquaman, but it worked out well in the end .

(Except for Hawkman I guess).

Here's the JL: Crisis on Two Earths intro:



Here's a frame from JL: Doom's intro.

So keeping the logos, just replacing who those logos refer to in context...

I hope your Flash is Wally.