Snyder's Justice League Appreciation/Discussion

[Sam]

I like that they found some time to flesh out Shayne a bit and get an idea of where he stands in the context of leaving the Sixth Dimension.

[catman]

Mar Novu said that 52 monitors are aspect of him separated by changes to multiverse.
Is Mandrakk aka Dax Novu no exception?
But, as far as i know, Dax is probe sent by Overvoid, So, Dax has different origin from Mar who is son of Perpetua.
What do you think about this topic?

[Buried Alien]

The current JUSTICE LEAGUE monthly is quietly the biggest thing happening at DC right now. It's bigger than DOOMSDAY CLOCK, bigger than HEROES IN CRISIS, bigger than LEVIATHAN...but nobody really seems to be noticing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Tenzel Kim]

Mar Novu said that 52 monitors are aspect of him separated by changes to multiverse.
Is Mandrakk aka Dax Novu no exception?
But, as far as i know, Dax is probe sent by Overvoid, So, Dax has different origin from Mar who is son of Perpetua.
What do you think about this topic?

I'm loving all of these new revelations, but this is the one thing that bugs me. I've been trying to figure out how or if these origins can be reconciled in some way.

In Multiversity: Guidebook it read: "Of the Over-Void is Monitor born and Anti-Monitor, which is the opposite, the Conflict generator, the Story Machine. Monitor-Mind in shock from the Schism, acts to contain The Flaw. To bottle The Flaw and prevent its spread. For study, Monitor-Mind brings forth Science Monitor Dax Novu. Who selflessly enters the Flaw and is contaminated -- and split in two"

Now, this description holds a bit of a conundrum in itself as it first states that of the Over-Void is Monitor and Anti-Monitor born, after which it states that when Science Monitor Dax Novu enters the Flaw (the DC Universe) he is split in two. Was the Anti-Monitor born of the Over-Void or was he split from the Monitor?

Now if we look at what we've seen in Justice League. Here we learn that the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and World Forger were born of Perpetua, and that the Monitor here is named Mar Novu.

In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond it is says "Blinded, split in two, the probe withdraws". This could be used to help explain the difference. Maybe Dax Novu, the probe, became part of the story by entering the DC Universe, so when he withdrew from the Universe part of his essence was left behind and became part of the story, as it was split into Mar Novu and the Anti-Monitor, who in their in-universe/multiverse origin became the sons of Perpetua. The problem here would be that Perpetua also originates outside the Source Wall from somewhere within the Over-Void. One explanation for this could be that she didn't exist until the Source Wall was broken and the "Flaw" could once again start spreading outwards into the Over-Void, creating a new in-universe/multiverse origin story that goes beyond what we knew before.

No matter the explanation I really hope that Tynion IV and Snyder will be looking into this. I wouldn't mind having Morrison on board though.

[a moment closer]

The current JUSTICE LEAGUE monthly is quietly the biggest thing happening at DC right now. It's bigger than DOOMSDAY CLOCK, bigger than HEROES IN CRISIS, bigger than LEVIATHAN...but nobody really seems to be noticing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I agree with you on this. It is one of the best-looking books being published by DC and better than any book I'm currently reading from other publishers. The story is epic in scale yet remains grounded by the smaller interpersonal beats. This is Snyder at his best in my opinion. I'm really surprised that this book isn't being lauded by more readers or DC itself.

[Korath]

The current JUSTICE LEAGUE monthly is quietly the biggest thing happening at DC right now. It's bigger than DOOMSDAY CLOCK, bigger than HEROES IN CRISIS, bigger than LEVIATHAN...but nobody really seems to be noticing.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Well, I think it's so damn good that there isn't much left to said beyond that. It has been consistently excellent ever since Drowned Earth ended, and even the low-point of the Aquaman-centric mini-event was rather high compared to the early Justice League of Rebirth. Perhaps my only complain is that Snyder used an old android Amazo in the last issue instead of the biological one introduced by Geoff Jones in New 52, whom I found all the more creepy and interesting.

[Batgrayson]

I'm loving all of these new revelations, but this is the one thing that bugs me. I've been trying to figure out how or if these origins can be reconciled in some way.

In Multiversity: Guidebook it read: "Of the Over-Void is Monitor born and Anti-Monitor, which is the opposite, the Conflict generator, the Story Machine. Monitor-Mind in shock from the Schism, acts to contain The Flaw. To bottle The Flaw and prevent its spread. For study, Monitor-Mind brings forth Science Monitor Dax Novu. Who selflessly enters the Flaw and is contaminated -- and split in two"

Now, this description holds a bit of a conundrum in itself as it first states that of the Over-Void is Monitor and Anti-Monitor born, after which it states that when Science Monitor Dax Novu enters the Flaw (the DC Universe) he is split in two. Was the Anti-Monitor born of the Over-Void or was he split from the Monitor?

Now if we look at what we've seen in Justice League. Here we learn that the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and World Forger were born of Perpetua, and that the Monitor here is named Mar Novu.

In Final Crisis: Superman Beyond it is says "Blinded, split in two, the probe withdraws". This could be used to help explain the difference. Maybe Dax Novu, the probe, became part of the story by entering the DC Universe, so when he withdrew from the Universe part of his essence was left behind and became part of the story, as it was split into Mar Novu and the Anti-Monitor, who in their in-universe/multiverse origin became the sons of Perpetua. The problem here would be that Perpetua also originates outside the Source Wall from somewhere within the Over-Void. One explanation for this could be that she didn't exist until the Source Wall was broken and the "Flaw" could once again start spreading outwards into the Over-Void, creating a new in-universe/multiverse origin story that goes beyond what we knew before.

No matter the explanation I really hope that Tynion IV and Snyder will be looking into this. I wouldn't mind having Morrison on board though.

I think it was also said that Monitor and Anti-Monitor were created by Perpetua but she "got" them from the Over-Void.

Snyder Is really trying to unite all the crisis, ir would be weird if he doesn't take into account Dax Novu/Manddrak Story, and Nix Uotan.

[Restingvoice]

I agree with you on this. It is one of the best-looking books being published by DC and better than any book I'm currently reading from other publishers. The story is epic in scale yet remains grounded by the smaller interpersonal beats. This is Snyder at his best in my opinion. I'm really surprised that this book isn't being lauded by more readers or DC itself.

because it's neither an event nor their current new big star, which is Bendis. That's what I don't like about DC, they only promote their new big thing, whether it's the writer or a new number #1 issue, then once it's passed they kinda just leave it on their own

Anyway, safe to say the current continuity is "everything happened but everyone forgets?"
I mean that's the impression I got ever since The Button but The Monitor gave a larger perspective

[Wakeneuron]

Justic League Odyssey # 11 preview is out @ aipt.com and it contains spoilers about the current status of the New Gods that I didn't know. Plus I wonder if Brainiac is playing dumb and is trying to deceive Luthor. If not then I would say that the writing is not very good.

[Sam]

because it's neither an event nor their current new big star, which is Bendis. That's what I don't like about DC, they only promote their new big thing, whether it's the writer or a new number #1 issue, then once it's passed they kinda just leave it on their own

Anyway, safe to say the current continuity is "everything happened but everyone forgets?"
I mean that's the impression I got ever since The Button but The Monitor gave a larger perspective

To be fair, I think Snyder is the one writer who has as much pull at DC right now as Bendis does. After all, he's got a ton of selling power. He might be the one writer at DC who does currently.

[K. Jones]

I think it was also said that Monitor and Anti-Monitor were created by Perpetua but she "got" them from the Over-Void.

Snyder Is really trying to unite all the crisis, ir would be weird if he doesn't take into account Dax Novu/Manddrak Story, and Nix Uotan.

I can't remember Nix's last cameo, but Mandrakk reappeared real recently in Neon the Unknown or whatever that book was called. The Unexpected. Steve Orlando getting WEIRD. I'm still not exactly sure what the hell that story was trying to accomplish, but it spun directly out of Metal and featured Mandrakk strongly. He still lurks.

And then there's these Tempus Fuginaut dudes who have been turning up in Sideways and elsewhere. But they're more like an order of ersatz Monitors, like a multiversal group that appreciates what the Monitor types did and are trying to take up the mantle. They should clash with the Terrible Time Tailors some time.

[Tenzel Kim]

I can't remember Nix's last cameo, but Mandrakk reappeared real recently in Neon the Unknown or whatever that book was called. The Unexpected. Steve Orlando getting WEIRD. I'm still not exactly sure what the hell that story was trying to accomplish, but it spun directly out of Metal and featured Mandrakk strongly. He still lurks.

I don't think we've seen Nix Uotan since Multiversity aside from a cameo in issue 4 of The Unexpected.

[K. Jones]

I don't think we've seen Nix Uotan since Multiversity aside from a cameo in issue 4 of The Unexpected.

There was a one-shot panel of him during Convergence, where he sat it out as Infinite Universes were set back to rights and the timeline was ... uh ... repaired-ish.

But probably more importantly, Mister Stubbs played a pretty key role in Metal during The Wild Hunt, which was a Grant Morrison collab. I'm not sure exactly what the implication was - imaginary friends or multiversal agents, but Stubbs ended up getting associated with Detective Chimp and the JLApes of Earth-53. Anyway Mister Stubbs is part and parcel of Nix Uotan, so he's at least relevant to the whereabouts of the Super-Judge.

[lemonpeace]

Jarro is the breakout star of this run, I love that little guy! I can't wait to see Jarro vs Starro but PLEASE for the love of god Snyder, don't take my baby boy. This was an outstanding recap issue and I'm glad that they explained which forces do what and what their names are.

[K. Jones]

Jarro is the breakout star of this run, I love that little guy! I can't wait to see Jarro vs Starro but PLEASE for the love of god Snyder, don't take my baby boy. This was an outstanding recap issue and I'm glad that they explained which forces do what and what their names are.

I'm surprised and thoroughly pleased that Tony Bedards humanoid Savage warlord Starro was holistically Incorporated in here as yet another face of Starro. Starro is an infinite parasitic being. It's a smidge "Brainiac continuity solution" but it works for me.