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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Do you think Itís right Batman kicked supermans but? I feel sorry for Superman

    Of course we are all Batman fans, but there is a part of me that feels sorry for the Super man character downfall.
    A final hammer in the coffin for the franchise. I feel like when I’m watching it . It’s more about the new Superman franchise didn’t work, so let’s finish off Superman by Batman crushing him.
    It doesn’t sit right with me. I feel like If any character always deserves a continuation of franchise progress, if it fails - is Superman, not using Batman to put the final nail in the coffin. In simple terms (about money), for which Superman deserves better.
    Last edited by Batmanquestion; 03-22-2019 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batmanquestion View Post
    Of course we are all Batman fans, but there is a part of me that feels sorry for the Super man character downfall.
    A final hammer in the coffin for the franchise. I feel like when I’m watching it . It’s more about the new Superman franchise didn’t work, so let’s finish off Superman by Batman crushing him.
    It doesn’t sit right with me. I feel like If any character always deserves a continuation of franchise progress, if it fails - is Superman, not using Batman to put the final nail in the coffin. In simple terms (about money), for which Superman deserves better.
    Are we talking about the movie or TDKR?

  3. #3
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Realisticly Batman has no chance against Superman, which is why I always root for and get a kick out of it when he does beat Superman. And it is never shown to be easy. Wasn't at all easy in the movies also (and the least we talk about it the better as was a horrid movie that did neither franchise any good).

    Superman franchise doesn't take off like Batman where it comes down to movies, as I think they fail to make him interesting enough. When you have God-like powers, and are a boy-scout, there isn't that much going on to create an interest.. I am not saying they can't make him interesting, he does need better screenwriters and less posing around. Maybe focus on Clark Kent more to let us know the character better, but not on the "good son" "pretend- clumsy goof ball" parts of him. Just him as a more complex person than that, a person that feels real and relatable (I think that is why Aquaman and Wonder Woman did well too).

    I don't think Affleck's Batman helped the Batman franchise either, too cold, not much character, so-so stiff acting. Nolan's was great because you had a good screenplay, great director and a great actor all at once and a great villain esp in Joker (Bane was a bit meh after that and of the three movies the weakest one... but still managed. I am not a big fan of Bane in general though). Nolan's Batman managed to be relatable and cool.

    DC has a lot to learn from Marvel where it comes to doing movies right. (and I love the dig at DC in Deadpool, which funny enough felt more of a dig at Batman, but Batman at his worst IMO)

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    What downfall DC just need to stop making dreary ass dark movies. Which they have stop Wonder Woman made like 880 million, Aquaman made a billion, Shazam currently has ridiculous high reviews and is going to make a lot of as well. Batman V Superman wasn't even a nail coffin it made 870,000 million on 250 dollar budget. BvS made so much money that DC didn't see the need to course correct Justice League until it was too late

    Superman is fine, They understand the formula now put him a fun movie and they will make money. Leaving the brooding to Batman.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    Are we talking about the movie or TDKR?
    The movie Batman v’s Superman . Batman kicks his butt then he is dragging him by the cape. I’m conflicted. I like the movie, but it’s not right. It doesn’t... I don’t know how to explain it , but dragging Superman via cape then at the end Superman’s in a coffin.

  6. #6
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    I donít like how Superman gets dragged by his cape and I donít like how they put him in a coffin. Yeah.. no itís not right.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    Realisticly Batman has no chance against Superman, which is why I always root for and get a kick out of it when he does beat Superman. And it is never shown to be easy. Wasn't at all easy in the movies also (and the least we talk about it the better as was a horrid movie that did neither franchise any good).

    Superman franchise doesn't take off like Batman where it comes down to movies, as I think they fail to make him interesting enough. When you have God-like powers, and are a boy-scout, there isn't that much going on to create an interest.. I am not saying they can't make him interesting, he does need better screenwriters and less posing around. Maybe focus on Clark Kent more to let us know the character better, but not on the "good son" "pretend- clumsy goof ball" parts of him. Just him as a more complex person than that, a person that feels real and relatable (I think that is why Aquaman and Wonder Woman did well too).

    I don't think Affleck's Batman helped the Batman franchise either, too cold, not much character, so-so stiff acting. Nolan's was great because you had a good screenplay, great director and a great actor all at once and a great villain esp in Joker (Bane was a bit meh after that and of the three movies the weakest one... but still managed. I am not a big fan of Bane in general though). Nolan's Batman managed to be relatable and cool.

    DC has a lot to learn from Marvel where it comes to doing movies right. (and I love the dig at DC in Deadpool, which funny enough felt more of a dig at Batman, but Batman at his worst IMO)
    I actually think you are on to, something there , but it’s not what you like. That’s what’s missing! - the funny goof ball part that Reeve done so well. Yes, that’s what’s missing. There is too much macho and posing. Yes, that’s what’s missing - comedy.
    Last edited by Batmanquestion; 03-24-2019 at 09:22 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    What downfall DC just need to stop making dreary ass dark movies. Which they have stop Wonder Woman made like 880 million, Aquaman made a billion, Shazam currently has ridiculous high reviews and is going to make a lot of as well. Batman V Superman wasn't even a nail coffin it made 870,000 million on 250 dollar budget. BvS made so much money that DC didn't see the need to course correct Justice League until it was too late

    Superman is fine, They understand the formula now put him a fun movie and they will make money. Leaving the brooding to Batman.

    Aquaman was awesome. Well, I hope you’re right and they don’t stuff the next Superman up. Damn...I always think about Christopher Reeve too. I think that’s another reason I don’t like watching him being dragged by the cape.
    Last edited by Batmanquestion; 03-24-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Superman repeating the "do you bleed?" line to a Batman who was on the verge of pissing himself was one of the very few good things to come out of JL. It was of course ruined in part by Cavill's horrible CGI lips, but I appreciate the attempt. Everyone laughed in my theater and I even heard an "ooooh shit" (one of the few bits of joy I detected from that audience).


    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    Superman franchise doesn't take off like Batman where it comes down to movies, as I think they fail to make him interesting enough. When you have God-like powers, and are a boy-scout, there isn't that much going on to create an interest.. I am not saying they can't make him interesting, he does need better screenwriters and less posing around. Maybe focus on Clark Kent more to let us know the character better, but not on the "good son" "pretend- clumsy goof ball" parts of him. Just him as a more complex person than that, a person that feels real and relatable (I think that is why Aquaman and Wonder Woman did well too).
    His god like powers should be enough to create interest. The comic writers can be like this to, he gets saddled with writers who don't have the imagination to use that as an excuse to go crazy and tell the biggest stories possible. He gets stuck with filmmaker's who just pit him against Lex Luthor's stupid real estate schemes or other Kryptonians, when he has an entire rogues gallery to explore (and even just Lex is capable of some crazy shit).

    He's also not a one dimensional boy scout, though that is connected to your stance that they need to elaborate on Clark as a person, which I agree with. The Golden Age stories and Morrison's Action run should be the go to sources of inspiration to make Superman click with modern audiences. A swaggering, takes-no-bullshit social justice crusader who is still one of the nicest guys on the planet and has God-like powers and fights 5th dimensional devil imps is what the film franchise desperately needs.

  10. #10
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    I can understand why fans want to see their heroes come out on top. But it defeats any sense of drama, if the hero easily wins every time. As a fan, you should want to see your hero struggle and even get knocked out.

    I like Will Eisner's the Spirit. And one of the pleasures of his stories was seeing the Spirit get beat up. Denny was a good fighter, but he went through some bad scrapes--remember that time when he fought the Octopus?

    You can't have those kinds of stories if the hero is impervious to harm and has prepped for every possible contingency. You need flawed heroes, vulnerable heroes for those kind of stories to work.

    On the one hand, it's nice that Superman gets taken down on occasion--so long as there's an explanation for why his powers fail to protect him. On the other hand, seeing Batman handily defeat Superman, takes away that whole idea that Batman is an ordinary human being and not some over-powered super-hero.

    Nine times out of ten--when Superman and Batman are forced to fight--Superman shouldn't break a sweat defeating Batman. It's like all those times when Spock was forced to fight Jim--Spock almost always could have killed him and had to pull his punches not to hurt our dear Captain. Most of the time, Superman is being gentle with Batman. But with things like Kryptonite and red suns, there's a chance that Batman gets lucky.
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  11. #11
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    If it's Batman's book, he's going to win. If it's Superman's book, they won't go there.

  12. #12
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    Any story where they're not besties is the epitome of wrong.
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  13. #13
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    If we're talking about BvS in particular; they did it very, very, very wrong. In that film, with that story, I feel like having them come to physical blows was already doing it wrong; that movie (and MoS before it) were trying to be and say something different and interesting; having it come down to a slug fest between Bruce and Clark just went all basic bitch. The whole thing was poorly handled on a lot of levels, even if there are incredibly excellent individual scenes and what the film was doing overall was fascinating. Im not a Zach Snyder hater, but BvS was not enjoyable. JL was a hot mess too but given what was happening behind the scenes I hold nothing against anybody for that.

    Superman and Batman fighting isn't something I really support anyway. I've rarely seen it done well. I think Loeb did it right in Hush, and I think Johns did it right in JL #2.

    Superman and Batman operate on such different levels, a physical fight is almost never going to satisfy. Clark can't lose unless the writers treat him like a moron with half his usual power levels. Bruce can't win unless the writers treat him like the Batgod amped up by a factor of X. There's nothing interesting here, nothing that says anything about either of these characters that anyone wants to hear. What is far more interesting is when these two argue; when both are written properly their debates can be (should be) really fun, and both can hurt the other in far deeper ways with words ("the last time you inspired anyone was when you died") than they ever could with a punch.

    Pak did the fight right in New52 Superman/Batman too, but t-shirt Superman is a whole different contender in a Bat-Super fight. In most ways he's a far more appropriate version of Superman to fight Batman, the attitude and power levels put them on a more even footing. I have no problem with modern day Batman fighting Golden Age Superman, and as long as they both beat the hell out of each other and no one gets punked, I'll be fine with either winning.
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