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  1. #1
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Default The most widely acclaimed Wonder Woman story ever

    ... is what, exactly?

    Does Diana already have such a tale?

    Something approaching the level of influence by ALL-STAR SUPERMAN by Grant Morrison or THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS by Frank Miller?

    If not, which WW tales are the best contenders?

    Also, if there is no clear single contender, then as a fun creative exercise, design her equivalent story yourself!

    You pick the premise, format (graphic novel, miniseries, main title run, etc), creative team, and set it for release during Diana's 80th anniversary in 2021.

    I'll be back with my own pitch in a bit. Can't wait to see what you can come up with!

  2. #2
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    Last edited by Lex Luthor; 03-24-2019 at 02:43 AM.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    The answer is “no” she doesn’t have anything like the stories you listed. She has the Perez run which is considered a “classic” run, but Diana does not have any standalone stories like the two you just listed, where it’s a critically acclaimed, widely read standalone story that you can recommend to any newbie who wants to get into WW. I guess there’s the Hiketeia but that’s not really well-known I’d argue even if I think it’s good. Rucka is apparently working on a Black Label book called Diana’s Daughter which is basically his second attempt at giving her such a story.
    Last edited by Vordan; 03-23-2019 at 02:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    The Legend of Wonder Woman is probably the closest to it. Or Gods and Monsters.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    The Hiketeia is probably it with Challenge of the Gods or Eyes of the Gorgon coming right behind it.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    The Legend of Wonder Woman is probably the closest to it. Or Gods and Monsters.
    Yup, otherwise nothing even comes close which is both surprising and sad.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    The Hiketeia is probably it with Challenge of the Gods or Eyes of the Gorgon coming right behind it.
    I would suggest A League of One by Christopher Moeller, though it's billed as a Justice League story.

    But I agree with others that there isn't yet a story that has captured the essence of Wonder Woman in the same way as All-Star Superman or The Dark Knight Returns.

    *

    Personally, I would love to read a Wonder Woman/Diana story set in Busiek's "Superman: Secret Identity"-style series. I'd set it immediately after Wonder Woman's debut to the outside world.

    Over twelves issues, I'd have her exploring the outside world to better understand it, her place in it, the complexities and ultimately making a decision as to where she will be located and what she aims to accomplish. Over the course of her travels, I'd have her encounter Etta Candy, a senior from Holliday University on a Habitat for Humanity/Peace Corp program--right before Etta is set to graduate and join the military.

    I'd move Diana away from the messiah/missionary tone of recent iterations to a "how can I help" stance, which is heavily influenced by what she has seen and experience on her exploration of the outside world.

    I think there could be so many ideas and themes to explore about a young person leaving her family for the first time to explore the world and figure out her place in it.

  8. #8
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    The Hiketeia and League of One are really the only two which immediately spring to mind. Maybe The Circle and Gods and Mortals?

    As for my ... ideal, I'm not sure. I think it would have to address her origins, powers, etc. And introduce her role in man's world, apart from being a superhero, as well as her supporting cast and at least one or two major foes. But, then it would essentially be yet another origin story and I don't think there is an appetite for that amongst fans.

    So, maybe just a major story with Wonder Woman. I'd probably use Circe as the main villain and have her seeking to corrupt / control the Amazons for her own purposes (without being a repeat of Amazons Attack). I'd like Cheetah to play a role - maybe Diana breaks her out of prison and asks for her help in fighting Circe and Circe's were-creatures as part of a strategy to rehabilitate Barbara? I'd probably set it on Themyscira just to keep the focus on Diana's "world", with some time spent in man's world to help establish Diana's character. I really just want a strong, compelling and well-written story which is able to capture and utilise all of Diana's characteristics, which can often be in conflict with one another.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 86 View Post
    The Hiketeia and League of One are really the only two which immediately spring to mind. Maybe The Circle and Gods and Mortals?

    As for my ... ideal, I'm not sure. I think it would have to address her origins, powers, etc. And introduce her role in man's world, apart from being a superhero, as well as her supporting cast and at least one or two major foes. But, then it would essentially be yet another origin story and I don't think there is an appetite for that amongst fans.

    So, maybe just a major story with Wonder Woman. I'd probably use Circe as the main villain and have her seeking to corrupt / control the Amazons for her own purposes (without being a repeat of Amazons Attack). I'd like Cheetah to play a role - maybe Diana breaks her out of prison and asks for her help in fighting Circe and Circe's were-creatures as part of a strategy to rehabilitate Barbara? I'd probably set it on Themyscira just to keep the focus on Diana's "world", with some time spent in man's world to help establish Diana's character. I really just want a strong, compelling and well-written story which is able to capture and utilise all of Diana's characteristics, which can often be in conflict with one another.
    Does it though? Take a look at All-Star: It summarizes everything you need to know about Superman in one page. DKR features Bruce’s origin but it’s not an origin story. If anything I think the reason Diana hasn’t gotten an All-Star or DKR yet is because writers are so obsessed with rehashing the origin. The general public knows Diana’s deal now thanks to the movie. We don’t need to rehash it.

    And honestly I think the opposite direction is more interesting: what’s Diana’s endgame? What’s her “final story”? DKR gives us Batman’s. All-Star gives us Superman’s. We have yet to get Diana’s.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I haven't read Morrison's Superman, but looking at Miller's DKR and its position it has a couple of things that make its status as a classic so strong. First of all it's a good story that goes to the core of the Batman myth, but it was also a story that changed how comics were told back in the late 80s, and it started Miller's long career in comics. Like Vordan mentions, it is also not an origin story: quite the opposite, it is a story about the end of Batman.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I haven't read Morrison's Superman, but looking at Miller's DKR and its position it has a couple of things that make its status as a classic so strong. First of all it's a good story that goes to the core of the Batman myth, but it was also a story that changed how comics were told back in the late 80s, and it started Miller's long career in comics. Like Vordan mentions, it is also not an origin story: quite the opposite, it is a story about the end of Batman.
    Doomed Planet. Desperate Scientists. Last Hope. Kindly Couple. Superman. Everything you need to know about Superman’s origin summed up on one page. I do not believe Diana’s origin is that much more complicated. I mean I could take a stab:
    Feminist Utopia/Paradise Island (Themyscaria)
    Gods’ Gift (Clay or Zeus)
    Strange Visitor (Steve Trevor’s Arrival)
    Champion’s Contest (Diana beating the other Amazons)
    Wonder Woman
    Last edited by Vordan; 03-25-2019 at 01:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Well, that was deflating.

    I was thinking there had to already be a critically acclaimed game-changing singular story by a big-time creator somewhere in Wonder Woman's 78+ year history that I was just not aware of ... and there is not.

    Ok, moving forward, let's pitch ours. Mine forthcoming.

    But first:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Does it though? Take a look at All-Star: It summarizes everything you need to know about Superman in one page. DKR features Bruce’s origin but it’s not an origin story. If anything I think the reason Diana hasn’t gotten an All-Star or DKR yet is because writers are so obsessed with rehashing the origin. The general public knows Diana’s deal now thanks to the movie. We don’t need to rehash it.

    And honestly I think the opposite direction is more interesting: what’s Diana’s endgame? What’s her “final story”? DKR gives us Batman’s. All-Star gives us Superman’s. We have yet to get Diana’s.
    ^QFT

    Diana does not need yet another origin story ("oh look, this time, she's the secret love child of Athena and Hephaestus, destined to overthrow Zeus, and raised by Hippolyta to avoid suspicion"... actually, this AU idea is worth revisiting in another thread, not here).

    She needs her own Destiny Story. That's what ASS and DKR both are: destiny stories, with the origin paid lip service through brief flashbacks.

    So, how should Diana meet her destiny?

    And, just as important, which big-time creator(s) should craft the tale?

    Preferably someone(s) who have yet to have ever taken a shot at a solo WW tale (as Morrison and Miller each were before their respective takes on the World's Finest).

    I have some ideas ... what about you?
    Last edited by daBronzeBomma; 03-28-2019 at 03:55 AM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    In a way, G Willow Wilson might be onto something, if she makes a story about successfully bringing together Themyscira and Man's World. That would fit into Diana's destiny. On the other hand, I think the in-continuity soap-opera like stories are not suited for something these seminal tales: they need a certain narrative focus that you don't get there nowadays, and also a freedom of storytelling that you won't have in writing in-continuity tales.

    As I think of it, there is a candidate for making the seminal Wonder Woman story, but it might not be one you expect: Patty Jenkins. She does have a vision for the character, she writes outside of continuity (sort of), these movies will likely be regarded as important points in the career of an important filmmaker, and the first movie is already historically important.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #14
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    It seems to me that her most "definitive" or widely-acclaimed moments happened in other media outside of the comics - the television series in the '70s and the movie from 2017. We've seen a variety of responses just on this thread. She doesn't have the one seminal story like "Dark Knight Returns" or "All-Star Superman." "The Hiketeia" is good, but to me it's more of a WW vs Batman story than just a WW one. I'd say the George Perez run would be as close as she's gotten as far as an acclaimed run/story by a well-known writer/artist. That's what gets brought up the most when people are talking about "the best WW stories."

  15. #15
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    My pick is Legend of Wonder Woman, god that was a great read!

    If I were pitching a new story though to become that "big" story though, I would set it later on in her career. Remember, The Dark Knight Returns was set after Batman had retired for ten years, and All Star Superman had him dying most of the story. Right, they're both kind of ending stories, so I'd do something similar for Diana, where she's already been through a lot, done a bunch of stuff, but is getting near the end of her career and kind of has to reckon with age, legacy, what she wants to do, and her own mortality, but all in a way that is uniquely Wonder Woman.

    Not sure what that would be exactly though, let me think about it.

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