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  1. #151
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Digital figures are hard to come by. The best you can hope for is reading the Best Seller lists on places like Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-...gbs/books/4366




    It's a lot of manga, Walking Dead and then whatever titles currently (or recently) had a big cinematic or TV presence. Lot of Avengers, Infinity Gems-related stuff and Batman, then some Thanos, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Miles Morales, Shazam, Deadpool, Guardians of the Galaxy Hulk, Ultimate Spider-Man, Umbrella Academy, Sabrina, ect, and a few wildcards like Ms. Marvel. Though, funny enough, the only Thor book in the Top 100 is the first collection of Aaron's Jane Foster run.

  2. #152
    Mighty Member GodThor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    You don't have to tear something down to build up Jane. It's my problem with Aaron's writing, he didn't have to make Thor a complete joke so Jane Thor could look good.
    he already did by wiping out every single Valkyrie so that Jane can become one.

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    So did Jane die and then become a Valkyrie in lieu of being just one of the Einherjar? Guess I need to read up on this.
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." ~ Carl Sagan

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    You will never get the numbers. But listening to literally dozens of creators talking about their books and the way they sink or swim at Marvel has painted a very clear picture. I have no inclination to reference podcasts, because they are too hard to quote, so you can choose to believe me or not.
    Sorry then. It’s possible you are right, but apparently not provable. People can say whatever they like, but without verifiable data it’s just talk.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Sorry then. It’s possible you are right, but apparently not provable. People can say whatever they like, but without verifiable data it’s just talk.
    You will never get correct or total numbers.

    Amazon Kindle gives you an idea because Amazon is the biggest seller. It's just that the data changes from week to week.

    Captain Marvel Vol. 1: Higher, Further, Faster, More
    Ms. Marvel Vol. 1: No Normal
    Thor Vol. 1: The Goddess Of Thunder
    These are the ONLY three titles I have YET to see not ranked in the top 100 on Amazon be it digital or trades.

    I have seen Riri, Shuri, SG, Moon Girl, Jane, Carol & Ms Marvel KILL every DC title in digital sales for Amazon. Including BATMAN.


    Folks have to understand the comic book store is NOT the end all for any book.

    Marvel does offer SUBSCRIPTIONS. That won't be shown on comicchron.

    Nor will those who sell on Ebay.
    Nor those who sell book to Half Price books.
    Nor those who split the cost-one gets the book and the other gets the code.
    Nor those who get books from Comic cons or Movie Trading Post.

    Crying about the existence of books you don't like won't get books that you "want".
    Nor will eating, setting on fire, stabbing or peeing on books on youtube will either.

    Can folks just read what they want and not worry about books that they are not?

  6. #156
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    This may be a shock, but the most reliable data on the sales performance of a comic book is how long the publisher continues to make the comic book.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  7. #157
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Not necessarily. There's been times when books have ended prematurely - Secret Wars and New 52 come to mind, all books ended regardless of sales in those cases. Sometimes they don't consider all markets and cancel books too early - that's why Unstoppable Wasp and Iceman got revived, they sold well in TPB (though Iceman's revival was just a mini, because Age of X-Man would've forced it's cancellation regardless of sales). Or maybe the creative team just leaves, and the book ends with them. That appears to be the fate of Exiles, after Saladin Ahmed took over Ms. Marvel, and before that, Miles Morales's Spider-Man, who had several months without a new issue because of Bendis defecting to DC (Ahmed took over that one as well).

  8. #158
    Extraordinary Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Exiles didn't sell well. I don't think Ahmed doing Ms Marvel was the main reason behind it's cancellation. I think Marvel knew it wasn't likely to do very well, but decided to give it a try anyway, especially cause they like Ahmed.

  9. #159
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    The artwork is good, they're always blessing her with good costumes. I'll check out the first issue to see if it's something I wanna read.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del torro View Post
    A Valkyrie book with Jane as the main character, and others like Brunhilde and Dani Moonstar as support characters would have been awesome.

    You don't have to tear something down to build up Jane. It's my problem with Aaron's writing, he didn't have to make Thor a complete joke so Jane Thor could look good.
    No, no, no. You and I don't understand the enormous talent of Aaron.

    He is a writing genius beyond reproach, the Shakespeare of modern comics. This opinion we share is only because of our lack of education, or possibly we are just misogynists.

    At least that's what certain persons keep telling me
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  11. #161
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Yeah, not even slightly interested in this. I'm sure some people will like it, and I'm happy for Jane's fans, but I'm just... not interested in the destruction of another piece of mythos. I know everything is a cycle, but... I'm just /so tired/ of this one.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    This may be a shock, but the most reliable data on the sales performance of a comic book is how long the publisher continues to make the comic book.
    Based on that logic, the Fillet o' Fish sells as well as every other burger at McDonald's.

    Except we know it doesn't.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  13. #163
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I get my burgers from Five Guys.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    No, no, no. You and I don't understand the enormous talent of Aaron.

    He is a writing genius beyond reproach, the Shakespeare of modern comics. This opinion we share is only because of our lack of education, or possibly we are just misogynists.

    At least that's what certain persons keep telling me
    Misunderstanding books is one thing. Deliberately misunderstanding other posters is not OK. Especially carrying over an argument from one thread to another. I have never called anyone a misogynist in my life.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Misunderstanding books is one thing. Deliberately misunderstanding other posters is not OK. Especially carrying over an argument from one thread to another. I have never called anyone a misogynist in my life.
    Why would you think I meant you?

    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post

    The problem with the Mary Sue criticism was best summed up by Camille Bacon-Smith, who pointed out that the paranoia of characters being labelled a Mary Sue was effectively stifling creativity. It so often gets directed at female characters and the definition has drifted to the point of restricting writers.

    I would go further and say the overuse of the label has until recently made it nearly impossible to write a powerful female superhero that wasn’t labelled a Mary Sue, precisely because the genre is one of wish fulfilment. They all had to somehow be damaged or flawed, or have undergone some deep seated trauma. Not actually reflective of normal women.

    Write a male wish fulfilment character and nobody bats an eyelid. Write a female wish fulfilment character and you get jumped on by armchair critics.
    There's no "m" word in there, but the message is clearly that this negative reaction to Jane is because she's a female character. It couldn't have anything to do with anything else, it's just that she's a woman. So yes, I am flat out calling you on it.

    And then you say I am deliberately misunderstanding you?

    No, sir, communication is a two way event. I think you need to consider that if I did not clearly understand your meaning, that if in fact you were NOT implying that a level of sexism is behind all criticism of Jane Foster's portrayal, then perhaps you did not communicate your meaning as well as you think.

    Now, here's the thing - pretty much EVERY male hero has undergone some deep seated trauma. Iron Man, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange... my God, do we even need to mention The Hulk? Cyclops saw his parents blow up, Deadpool is a walking cancer, Daredevil went blind and lost his dad... the list just goes on an on.

    And if we are talking about flaws - well, you only have to look at Aaron's run to see how Thor's list of flaws had grown exponentially. Apparently this is to make him a better hero, but weirdly Jane seemed to manage just fine without a long list of personality disorders. You might as well call him The Might Flaw, god of blunders.

    And as pointed out elsewhere, if this were happening just in Jane's book then that wouldn't be a big deal, though I wonder how well that book would sell without a collection of basket cases to compare her to.

    So my question here is, if being damaged or flawed or suffering deep seated traumas is NOT reflective of normal women, what does it say when that is such a common practice for the way MALE heroes are written?

    Bringing it back to the topic at hand,
    the good news for Brunhilde fans like myself is that Jane is getting her new title because B was murdered, and not because she was suddenly not worthy of being a Valkyrie and suddenly turned into a stumbling, whiny drunk.

    Yay
    Last edited by brettc1; 04-20-2019 at 02:03 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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